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  1. #1
    Benji Craddock
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    Alright....

    1) I have tried visions from God, and the DM says I am lying.... How do
    I tell him my character really believes?
    2) How do you lawfully wrest control from a realm? I ahve a level 2 LAW
    in ILIEN? Rogr's people Love me... How do I show I am fit?

  2. #2
    kirbyvalor@juno.com (Bre
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:05:43 -0500 Benji Craddock
    writes:
    > Alright....
    >
    >1) I have tried visions from God, and the DM says I am lying.... How
    >do
    >I tell him my character really believes?

    "Every man thinks God is on his side" - Jean Anouilh

    I would think that first off, you need to pull out of character and
    look at this in an AD&D realistic way. Your DM knows your character
    hasn't had visions from Haelyn, because YOUR DM IS HAELYN!!! If your
    character really believes this, then he is now what we call "psycho" and
    hopefully a real paladin or priest of Haelyn will stop him before he can
    damage too many people's faith.

    >2) How do you lawfully wrest control from a realm? I ahve a level 2
    >LAW
    >in ILIEN? Rogr's people Love me... How do I show I am fit?

    "What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say." - Ralph
    Waldo Emerson

    Unless something major has affected ILIEN, the people aren't going
    to love you just because you have a level 2 LAW holding. Three things to
    keep in mind here can both be found on pg 47 under "Adjust Loyalty and
    Regency" in reference to the "Domain Turn" started on 38. They are 1)
    "-1grade if levies were mustered and sent to a foreign war started by the
    regent;" 2) "-1 grade for a province under occupation. Note that a
    province assumes a loyalty of poor in the first turn that it is occupied
    by enemy forces," and [under Law Holdings and Loyalty] 3) "A regent who
    controls *less than half* of the law hodlings in a province can't ignore
    any grades of loyalty change." Having a level 2 LAW holding in ILIEN is
    *less than half* because ILIEN is a LEVEL 7 province!
    Your best bet is to ally yourself with a good domain that *might*
    get invaded by the bad guys so that you may retaliate and take over the
    bad guys' territory. If waiting to be attacked just isn't good enough.
    You might as well abandon paladinhood, join Boeruine's side, and declare
    war on anyone you see fit to rule better. So what if Boeruine's claim to
    the throne is via the biggest traitor to the empire? It's not like
    there's a *family tradition* of that going on? Besides, both you and
    Boeruine can be lawful. Who cares that you're now evil?
    If you just absolutely, positively have to conquer a domain
    overnight and you have convinced yourself that you're still Lawful GOOD
    and want to remain that way, there's this mountain region northeast of
    you called The Gorgon's Crown. If you can take that over, I'm sure
    everyone else will follow your rule. That way, you don't have to take
    over the entire continent, just the evil side.
    In other words, forget about it. You're not listening to us tell
    you it's wrong, you're waiting for someone to agree with you and help you
    convince your DM of your decision. See the path you are choosing.

    Take care,
    Kirby
    Valor above all
    Hey, McCloud, get off me ewe!
    "I am not so senseless as to want war. We want peace and understanding,
    nothing else. We want to give our hand to our former enemies.... When
    has the German people ever broken its word?" - Adolf Hitler

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  3. #3
    James Ray
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    I agree. I know the whole alignment system probably needs a little
    tweaking for Birthright Campaigns, but looking to usurp controls of lands
    controlled by fellow good-aligned humans is almost certainly not the sort
    of behavior Paladins of Haelyn are supposed to exemplify. As a Paladin,
    your primary concern is to protect and defend your faith. The example of
    honest government and civic justice that you set for your neighbors ought
    to be sufficient to bring people into your fold, as it were. If you're
    feeling threatened by some other Regent's rampant expansionism, just stick
    to Ruling and Fortifying your key Provinces and Holdings for a while, and
    be patient. Sooner or later, you'll find an opportunity to expand your
    Domain honorably, declare existing states to be protectorates, forge
    alliances on your own terms, or whatever you feel might be necessary to
    protect your faith, your territories, and those of your neighbor, without
    courting the danger of alignment infractions.

    James

    - ----------
    > From: Brett L Kirby

    > In other words, forget about it. You're not listening to us tell
    > you it's wrong, you're waiting for someone to agree with you and help you
    > convince your DM of your decision. See the path you are choosing.
    >
    > Take care,
    > Kirby

  4. #4
    Trizt
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    On 16-Jun-98, Benji Craddock (craddock@iswt.com) wrote about [BIRTHRIGHT] -
    Paladin:Synopsis:

    - ->2) How do you lawfully wrest control from a realm? I ahve a level 2 LAW
    - ->in ILIEN? Rogr's people Love me... How do I show I am fit?
    Do as all other religous persons, kill your foe and tell lies that the former
    foe did worship dark powers.

    If you are gona play a real Paladin, then you would only protect your
    king/church with your life. You wouldn't dream of leading armies of your own.


    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    --------------------
    E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
    Nick : Trizt IRC: irc.kuai.se:5278 Channel: #Opers
    MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
    --------------------

  5. #5
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    In a message dated 98-06-15 20:11:16 EDT, you write:

    > 1) I have tried visions from God, and the DM says I am lying.... How do
    > I tell him my character really believes?
    > 2) How do you lawfully wrest control from a realm? I ahve a level 2 LAW
    > in ILIEN? Rogr's people Love me... How do I show I am fit?
    >
    If I was the DM for your game I would consider this: If your character was
    truly the most fit ruler, perhaps the land itself might might choose you. To
    determine it, I would devise a series of tests (adventures) and if all went
    well for your character, rulership just *might* transfer! Don't know if this
    helps, but it's a thought...

    - -DKE

  6. #6
    The Olesens
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    "Anger, Fear, and Agression; these things lead to the dark side" Obi-Wan
    "Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your
    destiny"-Yoda

    Hede what these men say my Paladin.



    Hey, I know all of Boba Fett's lines in the movies:

    "As you wish."
    "He's no good to me dead."
    "Aaahhhhhh!"

    Oh just to let you know, Boba Fett does escape the Sarlacc and gets his
    cool armor back (BTW-that's Mandalorian Battle Armor).

  7. #7
    Clayton F. Hinton
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    >Do as all other religous persons, kill your foe and tell lies that the former
    >foe did worship dark powers.
    >
    >If you are gona play a real Paladin, then you would only protect your
    >king/church with your life. You wouldn't dream of leading armies of your own.
    >
    >
    This is irresponsible. A Paladin who has had the fortune of having a
    bloodline and a regency owes it to his religion, his followers, his
    vassals, his god, himself, his family, his loved ones, and his servants to
    do his best as a ruler. That means making hard decisions. But it does not
    mean attacking others just because they are there. A *real* paladin does
    lead armies, in the name of the church and the god he worships. This view
    of a Lawful Stupid Paladin just does not apply to characters in AD&D, and
    least of all to a regent in Birthright.

    - -Clay Hinton
    chinton@mail.utexas.edu

  8. #8
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    Well, I see paladins as being able to fight most wars, so long as they
    have a "holy cause".

    I take this from the historical viewpoint here on good old earth, mostly
    the crusades and Arthurian legend. Gawain and Galahad are listed as
    being good examples of paladins. Yet the fought in the battle against
    Mordred, a kinsmen of their king, and their fellow countrymen. Was
    Mordred evil, or just misguided? I won't go there, as it isn't
    important. Were his troops evil, slobbering goblins? No, they were
    typical, peace loving countrymen and lords who wanted a good king, and
    believed Mordred was that king. Yet the paladins had no problem killing
    Mordred's followers.

    The crusaders sacked and pillaged the city of Constantinople, the capital
    of a very christian kingdom that they were supposedly saving from
    infidels. Was that evil? Not in their minds. They were justified
    because the Byzantine emperors didn't pay up, so they crusaders took
    their pay.

    So, I imagine that any paladin who can create a holy reason (a high
    priest proclaims a crusade, attack a different religion regardless of
    benevolence, etc) can invade and pursue war. So, have someone (OIT in
    Diemed would be perfect) proclaim a holy war against Medoere and Ilien,
    have your paladin invade them, and be happy. Your church is supporting
    you, so no worries.

    Benjamin

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  9. #9
    kirbyvalor@juno.com (Bre
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    On Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:21:35 -0400 bloebick@juno.com (Benjamin W Loebick)
    writes:
    >>Well, I see paladins as being able to fight most wars, so long as they
    have a "holy cause".

    I take this from the historical viewpoint here on good old earth....>Yet the paladins had no problem killing Mordred's followers.So, I imagine that any paladin who can create a holy reason (a high
    >priest proclaims a crusade, attack a different religion regardless of
    >benevolence, etc) can invade and pursue war. So, have someone (OIT in
    >Diemed would be perfect) proclaim a holy war against Medoere and
    >Ilien, have your paladin invade them, and be happy. Your church is
    >supporting you, so no worries.

  10. #10
    The Olesens
    Guest

    Paladin:Synopsis

    You can't *create* a holy reason, especially because of a "different
    > religion regardless of benevolence." In the AD&D world, that is just
    > bull. The triceratops in Jurassic Park couldn't give a bigger pile of
    > doo doo. Sure, it probably happened many times in real life history, but
    > we never had mages casting fireballs, nor priests creating blade
    > barriers, nor Rhoubhe Manslayer either.

    On Earth the question of "is there a god?" is not as proven (if proven
    at all) as it is in Birthright (where all important people are miniature
    gods and it was only 2,000 years ago that the gods were actually seen in
    person).

    In most fantasy worlds you know that if you're bad a bolt of lightning
    will strike you down but in the real world the god(s) aren't as
    promiment (if existant at all) as in fantasy worlds (go to your nearest
    church and ask a priest to Detect Evil).

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