Racial level limits in BR, why

[The Olesen`s]

Fredrick Hilbrandt wrote:
>
> The limits on stats is BEFORE any racial adjustments. That's stated
> clearly in the rules. However...Something could have raised his DEX after
> creation.
>
> The rules don't always apply to NPCs.
>
> Fred Hilbrandt
> fredrick.hilbrandt@worldnet.att.net


Well the rules apply to everyone but there are ways to get around them.
(ie a Dwarf who found an amulet of instant Dextarity that raised his Dex
five points to 19.)
HOW the NPC gets around them is unimportant. Following the rules
exactly for everyone gets kinda boring. Why not throw in a Vos paladin?
or an elf who left the elven wood to live with humans and became a
priest? They also keep plays on thier toes (look an dwarf! Hmm lets
see, he could either be a priest, fighter, or thief. He is carrying a
battleaxe so he is not a thief. Hmm. Lets look up the gods for
dwarves...he is wearing a red tunic...Aha! God of War, her priests must
always wear red tunics. And must use weapons of medium or larger size
and must have some piercing or slashing edge...All the other gods's
priests must wear other garments or can't use battle axes. So that makes
him a dwarf fighter...Better use my rod since it givest him the worst
saving throw...remember to use slashing/piercing...don't use magic...use
bows.

Well anyway this has been a short demostration of how the immage of a
dwarf wearing a red tunic and carrying a battleaxe can be used to
determine exactly what class he is, what spells (if any) are best, and
how to attack him.

But if he deveated from the basic rules he could be a Dwarf Ranger (a
demi-ranger to be exact, see ranger's handbook) and have three thrid
level (and more second and first level) priest spells and be a Mountian
Man with the usual Will to live.

Oh well, this is getting kinda long. Bye for now.

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

>In your example, the PC couldn't be a dwarf

"Sorry, but you spent too much time stretching, and your character
is too nimble. you cannot be a dwarf."

I guess this is where my house rules would override the "printed" rules.
I don't like the fact that (however unlikely) a character rolls really
good, that he cannot be a given race. why shouldn't a dwarf have a dex of
15 or better? i think that this is just a silly rule. of course, this is
all IMHO, and some are bound to disagree with me :)

Regards,
Erik

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[Jim Cooper]

The Olesen's wrote:
>
> Jim Cooper wrote:
> >
> > Aleksei Andrievski wrote:
> > > >Perhaps he does, but with optional rules listed in the DMG.
> > > >First of all, if his Dextarity is ?16? he gets two bonus levels to hislevel limit (see chart down and to the right of level limits chart).
> > > Checking the Baruk-Azhik sourcebook, Diirk indeed has Dex 16.
> >
> > Thats something I've always wondered about ---
> >
> > When creating a character, the PCs stats have to fall within the min/max
> > ranges of the particular species. Now for a dwarf DEX its 3/16.
> >
> > My question is this: Do you take off racial adjustments before or after
> > you've got the total for you DEX when making a dwarf character?
>
> They are called ractial REQIREMENTS for a reson.
>
> A charachter's stats must fit in between the given numbers.
>
> A charachter with charisma 3 couldn't be an elf.
>
> In your example, the PC couldn't be a dwarf

Right, so Diirk couldn't have DEX 16 right? (Certainly not with
Anduiras' bloodline)

Cheers,
Darren

[The Olesen`s]

Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>
> >In your example, the PC couldn't be a dwarf
>
> "Sorry, but you spent too much time stretching, and your character
> is too nimble. you cannot be a dwarf."
>
> I guess this is where my house rules would override the "printed" rules.
> I don't like the fact that (however unlikely) a character rolls really
> good, that he cannot be a given race. why shouldn't a dwarf have a dex of
> 15 or better? i think that this is just a silly rule. of course, this is
> all IMHO, and some are bound to disagree with me :)
>
> Regards,
> Erik


If your DM lets you (or if you are DM and want to) you can be any class
or race. Why not a VERY ugly elf? a elf priest?

[Trizt]

On 10-Jun-98, Suiriene@aol.com (Suiriene@aol.com) wrote about [BIRTHRIGHT] -
Racial level limits in BR, why aren't they followed?:
- ->Recently, I was looking at Diirk Watershold(Royal Guild of Baruk-Azhik). He
- ->is a level 10 thief. Then I looked at the racial level limits chart.
Dwarves
- ->can only get up to level 8 as thieves. I generally don't use level limits
but
- ->I was wondering why this NPC doesn't. There are probably other ones too.
Are
- ->NPCs not bound by those restrictions/

I would guess that the person creating this NPC didn't know anything about the
racial level limit. It's not unusual, it's really common, that demihumn NPC's
are way above the level limits, even if you would use the bonus levels for
high ability scores.

//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-06-11 15:47:36 EDT, you write:

> *This is correct only 14. Remember when rolled the score must first lie
> between the racial min/max (Table1 page4) and then the racial modifier
> (Table2 page4) is applied.
> For dwarven dex this means 16-2=14 for the maximum score.
>
I have to disagree. Those min/max figures are meant as a guide to show you
what happens when you apply the normal pernalties/pluses from the racial table
below. To take a rolled Dex of 18 down to 16, and then applying a penalty to
make 14 is doubling up on the intended penalties. It also proves the stat
ranges represented in the first table as wrong. It CLEARLY states that the
range for dex is 3 to 16. How can a dwarf obtain a 16 if he must throw out
any roll of 17 or 18 and THEN subtract 2?

- -DKE

[Mathieu Roy]

DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:
> I have to disagree. Those min/max figures are meant as a guide to show you
> what happens when you apply the normal pernalties/pluses from the racial table
> below. To take a rolled Dex of 18 down to 16, and then applying a penalty to
> make 14 is doubling up on the intended penalties. It also proves the stat
> ranges represented in the first table as wrong. It CLEARLY states that the
> range for dex is 3 to 16. How can a dwarf obtain a 16 if he must throw out
> any roll of 17 or 18 and THEN subtract 2?

In that case, why isn't the table showing the 19s and 20s for increased
ability
scores? How come halflings, who have -2 Str, are listed as having 18 STR
maximum?
I think the tables were intended like the others have said, first fit
into Table
1 and then apply modifiers. Though if someone rolled too well to fit in
the race of
his choice, I'd probably let him reduce his ability scores to fit. ;)

Mathieu Roy

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-06-12 10:54:43 EDT, you write:

> In that case, why isn't the table showing the 19s and 20s for increased
> ability
> scores? How come halflings, who have -2 Str, are listed as having 18 STR
> maximum?
>
See, this is what I get for answer postings without the rulebook handy. ;)

Perhaps, I'll concede your point then, and rephrase my position based on what
I have done with my own campaign: Generally, I ignore the table with the
maximums and minimums regarding it as only a loose guideline. I prefer to
apply the racial mods only, as it allows for the greatest possible variety of
stats within each race. Besides, depending on the method you use to have
people roll characters, the table with mins/maxes may not work well without
adjusting them.

- -DKE

[The Olesen`s]

Trizt wrote:
>
> On 12-Jun-98, breye@earthlink.net (breye@earthlink.net) wrote about Re:
> [BIRTHRIGHT] - Racial level limits in BR, why aren't they followed?:
>
> ->> are way above the level limits, even if you would use the bonus levels for
> ->> high ability scores.
>
> ->demihuman(or whatever...) who reaches the level limit then pays double the
> xps
> ->to rise to the next level.
>
> I have thought to do the same, but haven't had the need of making any
> decission yet, as my players don't play demihumans. I'm quite sure I will put
> in a level limit for humans too as I see them to powerful as they are now.


Most likly limit Magaians and Mages as those are the most un-human
classes (well as un-human as they get).

[Trizt]

On 12-Jun-98, breye@earthlink.net (breye@earthlink.net) wrote about Re:
[BIRTHRIGHT] - Racial level limits in BR, why aren't they followed?:

- ->> are way above the level limits, even if you would use the bonus levels for
- ->> high ability scores.

- ->demihuman(or whatever...) who reaches the level limit then pays double the
xps
- ->to rise to the next level.

I have thought to do the same, but haven't had the need of making any
decission yet, as my players don't play demihumans. I'm quite sure I will put
in a level limit for humans too as I see them to powerful as they are now.

//Trizt of Ward^RITE

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