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Thread: potpourri :)

  1. #1
    tiphareth
    Guest

    potpourri :)

    hi everyone :) i've been around for a while, thrown in my 2cp from time to
    time, but now... it's my turn! [jarring chord] this is just a bunch of
    questions that we've had crop up in our campaign, and a few nitpicking
    points in general.

    1. is there a specific aging table for cerilian elves? imc we've used the
    standard table (reaching maturity around 100, but age having no further
    effect) this has worked well, until the vos expansion came along and there
    was a 50-year old sidhelien regent. now if that's somewhere between eight
    and ten years old in human parlance, we have to rethink our thinking. :)

    2. is there a halfling language? common sense and the language card in the
    boxed set say yes. the rulebook says no (or rather doesn't say anything in
    its language list).

    3. can halflings see in the dark? they lived in the shadow world, or was it
    not dark at that time?

    4. major resistance [magic]. this has kind of come up before, but how does
    it work? it's phrased kind of awkwardly in blood enemies. The first option
    is the way the book's phrased: you need a great bloodline, you assign a
    minor power, and you get 25%. The second option is what common sense
    dictate: bloodline strength is irrelevant, you assign a great power, and
    you get 25% (a minor level, but to a great range of effects)

    the serpent did it one way, and the magian did it the other. the minotaur
    and gorgon don't do it either :)

    5. what's up with how they assigned valid cerilian kits? some i can see as
    being inappropriate -- bladesingers and herbalists from the CBoE spring to
    mind -- but the rulebook's kits offered to druids don't really line up with
    the ones offered in the rjurik highlands expansion. okay, some might be
    only be appropriate for the rjuven culture, but aren't all druids rjurik in
    outlook if not race anyways?

    6. how do elves and sources actually work? every elven realm handles them
    differently. lluabraight is listed as having normal source reduction (3/6
    prov) but llaeddra has access to a level 9 source in that province.
    innishiere has normal reduction and it appears that the sources are limited
    to that level. rhuannach, tuarhievel, and the sielwode have wierd province
    levels (like 3/7) etc., and finally cwmb bheinn has no source reduction at
    all, which what the rulebook tried to say.

    and now for something completely different, some pointers on the cerilian
    npc's (maybe some of these could be corrected in the 2nd-edition
    birthright.. after all, how hard can it be to qualify for a race or class
    or whatever when you get to assign abilities? :)

    - -- why does it feel like half of the people in the rulebooks ignore the
    mins and maxes for their race? just about every dwarf has (a) a dexterity
    above 14, or (b) a constitution below 15, or (c) both :) darien avan has 18
    dex, despite being anuirean. and how'd he get his hands on elven chain +5? =)

    - -- seems like nobody meets the requirements for dual-classing either. 15 in
    your first prime requisites, 17 for the second class'. i'm sure there are
    some people who did it right, but i can't think of any.

    - -- that guy in the roesone sourcebook dual-classed at 1st level. can't do
    that.

    - -- the rulebook and book of magecraft state pretty clearly that there are
    no illusionists and diviners. caliedhe dosiere is a diviner. who's in error
    here? (and as long as i'm picking on him, he doesn't have the strength to
    dual-class, unless he's lost 5 points in his rigorous divining career;)

    anywho, that's my question session du jour. probably won't have thought of
    another dozen questions for a few weeks, so you can all sit back and not
    read anything else from me :)

    cheers

    - -nick

  2. #2
    Kai Beste
    Guest

    potpourri :)

    > 1. is there a specific aging table for cerilian elves? imc we've used the
    > standard table (reaching maturity around 100, but age having no further
    > effect) this has worked well, until the vos expansion came along and there
    > was a 50-year old sidhelien regent. now if that's somewhere between eight
    > and ten years old in human parlance, we have to rethink our thinking. :)

    Well, I've thought a bit about this myself, since one of the PCs IMC,
    a elf maid, is having a child. I decided that reach biological
    maturity around 60 (comparable to a 16 year old human) and social
    maturity at 100 (comparable to a 21 year old human). HOw does that
    sound?

    > 2. is there a halfling language? common sense and the language card in the
    > boxed set say yes. the rulebook says no (or rather doesn't say anything in
    > its language list).

    As you already said, the rulebook says no. But since there is no
    'common' in Cerilia it would seem logical that they should have a
    language of their own.

    > 3. can halflings see in the dark? they lived in the shadow world, or was it
    > not dark at that time?

    No, they can't. And it's not always dark in the shadow world, IMHO
    there's more of a kind of eternal twilight.

    > 4. major resistance [magic]. this has kind of come up before, but how does
    > it work? it's phrased kind of awkwardly in blood enemies. The first option
    > is the way the book's phrased: you need a great bloodline, you assign a
    > minor power, and you get 25%. The second option is what common sense
    > dictate: bloodline strength is irrelevant, you assign a great power, and
    > you get 25% (a minor level, but to a great range of effects)

    Game balance suggests that you assign a great power and get a minor
    level. This, however, would be inconsistent with the other
    resistances, so my vote goes to great bloodline, minor power, minor
    level. Not that one of my PCs has earned this ability...
    BTW, if you think about giving this ability to a PC I'd suggest that
    it works against *all* types of magic, even against beneficial magic.

    > the serpent did it one way, and the magian did it the other. the minotaur
    > and gorgon don't do it either :)

    > 5. what's up with how they assigned valid cerilian kits? some i can see as
    > being inappropriate -- bladesingers and herbalists from the CBoE spring to
    > mind -- but the rulebook's kits offered to druids don't really line up with
    > the ones offered in the rjurik highlands expansion. okay, some might be
    > only be appropriate for the rjuven culture, but aren't all druids rjurik in
    > outlook if not race anyways?

    Didn't look up the druids, but most of the other kits are ok.

    > 6. how do elves and sources actually work? every elven realm handles them
    > differently. lluabraight is listed as having normal source reduction (3/6
    > prov) but llaeddra has access to a level 9 source in that province.
    > innishiere has normal reduction and it appears that the sources are limited
    > to that level. rhuannach, tuarhievel, and the sielwode have wierd province
    > levels (like 3/7) etc., and finally cwmb bheinn has no source reduction at
    > all, which what the rulebook tried to say.

    I'd say normal degradation, but max source level is equal to
    population level plus listed source level (i.e. a province 3/6 has a
    max source level of 9).

    just a 2 GBs

    Kai

  3. #3
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    potpourri :)

    On Thu, 28 May 1998 21:53:21 -0400 tiphareth
    writes:
    >1. is there a specific aging table for cerilian elves? imc we've used
    >the
    >standard table (reaching maturity around 100, but age having no
    >further
    >effect) this has worked well, until the vos expansion came along and
    >there
    >was a 50-year old sidhelien regent. now if that's somewhere between
    >eight
    >and ten years old in human parlance, we have to rethink our thinking.
    >:)

    Well, I think it is fine to use the PHB maturity numbers. Why, you ask?
    Well, I've always looked at that particular regent as kind of an Oliver
    Twist who happens to run the place, not just work for it. We all know of
    (or at least have heard of) amazing young people who do things that older
    people usually do. Often we are amazed at how 'mature' the individual
    is, and then wonder why we weren't equally successful at the same age. ;)
    So I say Glynna only being 50 is fine, she just happens to be a very
    prodigy of an elf.

    >2. is there a halfling language? common sense and the language card in
    >the
    >boxed set say yes. the rulebook says no (or rather doesn't say
    >anything in
    >its language list).

    I don't see anywhere, or recall it either, where halflings have their own
    language. The Rulebook description of them says they fit into the
    society in which they live. Thus I suppose they adapt the language of
    the humans around them. It seems likely that they had their own language
    when living in the Shadow place, but perhaps it was lost in the trip over
    to Cerelia?

    >3. can halflings see in the dark? they lived in the shadow world, or
    >was it
    >not dark at that time?

    No, they cannot. The Shadow World isn't actually dark, just shadowy.
    Yeah, big help there, huh? I imagine it is a lot like the late evening,
    just after the sun has set over the horizon, but there is still quite a
    bit of light. You can still see fairly well, but your eyes may play
    tricks on you with various shapes.

    >4. major resistance [magic]. this has kind of come up before, but how
    >does
    >it work? it's phrased kind of awkwardly in blood enemies. The first
    >option
    >is the way the book's phrased: you need a great bloodline, you assign
    >a
    >minor power, and you get 25%. The second option is what common sense
    >dictate: bloodline strength is irrelevant, you assign a great power,
    >and
    >you get 25% (a minor level, but to a great range of effects)
    >
    >the serpent did it one way, and the magian did it the other. the
    >minotaur
    >and gorgon don't do it either :)

    Gads. I've often wondered about this myself, and then thought "Oh,
    nevermind." I have to stand by the literal interpretation in Blood
    Enemies, which is 1. Great Bloodline derivation 2. Minor power strength
    3. 25% resistance to all magic, even beneficial.
    Now, I admit I'm kind of a strict interpretationalist. I think the
    differences arose because the Blood Enemies book wasn't written by Mr.
    Stark who is the resident expert on Birthright at TSR, but by someone
    else who only wrote Blood Enemies and moved on to other things. I
    believe the author's (not a slam, just a comment) understanding of the
    rules wasn't all that strong, and so variations cropped up to show
    changing understanding.

    >
    >5. what's up with how they assigned valid cerilian kits? some i can
    >see as
    >being inappropriate -- bladesingers and herbalists from the CBoE
    >spring to
    >mind -- but the rulebook's kits offered to druids don't really line up
    >with
    >the ones offered in the rjurik highlands expansion. okay, some might
    >be
    >only be appropriate for the rjuven culture, but aren't all druids
    >rjurik in
    >outlook if not race anyways?

    Well, I'm not sure how they assigned kits, since I don't own any of the
    Complete Books of ____ and can't read their descriptions. However, I
    would assume that the variations arise from fundamental tenants of the
    culture from which the character descends. For instance: Rjurik and
    Anuirean. Rjurik are taught from early age to respect the land, and how
    to live with nature. Many of them live semi-nomadic lifestyles, and are
    very close to nature. It is a part of them to respect the natural world
    around them so it will always supply them with all their needs.
    Anuireans, on the otherhand, don't grow up like this. The closest
    Anuireans to the land are often farmers, who don't see a forest as a
    great place, but a field to be plowed. The environment has been abused
    and beaten into submission for countless generations so that the people
    could harvest its bounty. See a forest? That means lots of lumber. See
    a mountain? Looks like a great quarry to an Anuirean. See a river
    valley? Great place to build a city and castle. Get my point? The
    Rjurik and Anuirean just look at the world around them differently. This
    applies to the other human races as well. That is why you have
    variations in kits.

    >6. how do elves and sources actually work? every elven realm handles
    >them
    >differently. lluabraight is listed as having normal source reduction
    >(3/6
    >prov) but llaeddra has access to a level 9 source in that province.
    >innishiere has normal reduction and it appears that the sources are
    >limited
    >to that level. rhuannach, tuarhievel, and the sielwode have wierd
    >province
    >levels (like 3/7) etc., and finally cwmb bheinn has no source
    >reduction at
    >all, which what the rulebook tried to say.

    Excellent question. I think this can be explained by a little used
    paragraph in the Rulebook about source levels. It states that
    territories that suffered natural disasters will have lower source
    ratings, while those with special natural formations (an underground cave
    system) have higher ratings than normally possible.
    In the case of Tuarhieval and Sielwode, the Gorgon has been a neighbor
    for ages. Chances are he has sent a few invasion armies into those
    forests from time to time, to at least cull out his goblin hordes. Their
    presence in the forests and all their grimey blood being poured into the
    earth had a negative impact on the land, reducing the sources. The same
    applies to Lluabright, as the Urga-Zai goblins and nasty evils from the
    Giant Downs have occasionally invaded. In Rhuanach, humans actually live
    with the elves in a state of peace. Their presence on the land has
    reduced the source holdings. The kingdom of Cwmb Bheinn doesn't have any
    reductions because it has never been invaded. If you read about it in
    Tribes, you will note that the land was warded from the world almost
    since Deismaar. That means the wizards and regent of Cwmb Bheinn cast
    Warding over all their territories A LOT!!!! No one ever knew their
    lands were even there until recently when the Raven somehow dispelled the
    wardings and blasted two elven provinces into a swamp and a wasteland.
    The other provinces have yet to be touched. Tuar Annwyn is the same
    thing - the provinces have never been invaded (for valid reasons, I might
    add!)

    >
    >and now for something completely different, some pointers on the
    >cerilian
    >npc's (maybe some of these could be corrected in the 2nd-edition
    >birthright.. after all, how hard can it be to qualify for a race or
    >class
    >or whatever when you get to assign abilities? :)
    >
    >-- why does it feel like half of the people in the rulebooks ignore
    >the
    >mins and maxes for their race? just about every dwarf has (a) a
    >dexterity
    >above 14, or (b) a constitution below 15, or (c) both :) darien avan
    >has 18
    >dex, despite being anuirean. and how'd he get his hands on elven chain
    >+5? =)

    Heh. Because, as has often been shown in other TSR products, NPCs are
    special. I believe the makers do this in order to make the NPCs
    difficult to defeat, beat, conquer, charm, dominate or otherwise control.
    How easy would it be if Prince Avan had all average stats, no magic
    items and a wimpy bloodline? PCs would take over in a minute (especially
    those monty-haul/munchkin players like James Ruhland [sp?] ;)
    So, we can assume NPCs with 'impossible' stats are just extreme sample of
    their race, that have inherited eons worth of equipment and magic items.

    >
    >-- seems like nobody meets the requirements for dual-classing either.
    >15 in
    >your first prime requisites, 17 for the second class'. i'm sure there
    >are
    >some people who did it right, but i can't think of any.

    See my last paragraph. It applies here, also.

    >-- that guy in the roesone sourcebook dual-classed at 1st level. can't
    >do
    >that.
    >
    >-- the rulebook and book of magecraft state pretty clearly that there
    >are
    >no illusionists and diviners. caliedhe dosiere is a diviner. who's in
    >error
    >here? (and as long as i'm picking on him, he doesn't have the strength
    >to
    >dual-class, unless he's lost 5 points in his rigorous divining
    >career;)

    I think this is a semantics problem. There are no Diviner or Illusionist
    kits (which would be specialized wizards) but there are people who pretty
    much focus their efforts in divining and illusions. These are called
    diviners and illusionists, but are NOT the same thing as other kits with
    the same name.

    >
    >anywho, that's my question session du jour. probably won't have
    >thought of
    >another dozen questions for a few weeks, so you can all sit back and
    >not
    >read anything else from me :)
    >
    >cheers
    >
    >-nick

    I hope this helps.

    Benjamin

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  4. #4
    Trankel Al Ker
    Guest

    potpourri :)

    At 09:53 PM 28/05/98 -0400, tiphareth wrote:
    >hi everyone :) i've been around for a while, thrown in my 2cp from time to
    >time, but now... it's my turn! [jarring chord] this is just a bunch of
    >questions that we've had crop up in our campaign, and a few nitpicking
    >points in general.
    >
    >1. is there a specific aging table for cerilian elves? imc we've used the
    >standard table (reaching maturity around 100, but age having no further
    >effect) this has worked well, until the vos expansion came along and there
    >was a 50-year old sidhelien regent. now if that's somewhere between eight
    >and ten years old in human parlance, we have to rethink our thinking. :)

    I think that table is ok (as you're using it).
    >
    >2. is there a halfling language? common sense and the language card in the
    >boxed set say yes. the rulebook says no (or rather doesn't say anything in
    >its language list).

    Perphas a strange language, that only the halflings that lived in the
    Shadow World know...

    >3. can halflings see in the dark? they lived in the shadow world, or was it
    >not dark at that time?

    It wasn't "dark" at that time. It was an exact replica of Cerilia.

    >4. major resistance [magic]. this has kind of come up before, but how does
    >it work? it's phrased kind of awkwardly in blood enemies. The first option
    >is the way the book's phrased: you need a great bloodline, you assign a
    >minor power, and you get 25%. The second option is what common sense
    >dictate: bloodline strength is irrelevant, you assign a great power, and
    >you get 25% (a minor level, but to a great range of effects)

    I usually use the first option.

    >the serpent did it one way, and the magian did it the other. the minotaur
    >and gorgon don't do it either :)

    They're the REAL BAD GUYS, so, I think you can take some libertys in their
    powers.. ;)

    >5. what's up with how they assigned valid cerilian kits? some i can see as
    >being inappropriate -- bladesingers and herbalists from the CBoE spring to
    >mind -- but the rulebook's kits offered to druids don't really line up with
    >the ones offered in the rjurik highlands expansion. okay, some might be
    >only be appropriate for the rjuven culture, but aren't all druids rjurik in
    >outlook if not race anyways?

    Yeap.. I normally take the rjurik's kits when it's about druids, and for
    the other I usually see if they can fit in the campaing and if the players
    can justify how their characters learned them...

    >6. how do elves and sources actually work? every elven realm handles them
    >differently. lluabraight is listed as having normal source reduction (3/6
    >prov) but llaeddra has access to a level 9 source in that province.
    >innishiere has normal reduction and it appears that the sources are limited
    >to that level. rhuannach, tuarhievel, and the sielwode have wierd province
    >levels (like 3/7) etc., and finally cwmb bheinn has no source reduction at
    >all, which what the rulebook tried to say.

    Elves can live pretty well in the forest. And their constructions don't
    impact the enviroment as human's do.

    Trankel Al Ker
    Lord of the Brotherhood of the Black Tulipan

  5. #5
    Alain Pouliot
    Guest

    potpourri :)

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

    Im not alone thinking this way!
    Monty haul/munnchkin player like James Ruhland
    In your face!

    Snag

    > Heh. Because, as has often been shown in other TSR products, NPCs are
    > special. I believe the makers do this in order to make the NPCs
    > difficult to defeat, beat, conquer, charm, dominate or otherwise control.
    > How easy would it be if Prince Avan had all average stats, no magic
    > items and a wimpy bloodline? PCs would take over in a minute (especially
    > those monty-haul/munchkin players like James Ruhland [sp?] ;)



    > >read anything else
    >
    > I hope this helps.
    >
    > Benjamin
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

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