Bloodline strength enhancement?

[Gary V. Foss]

Ryan B. Caveney wrote:

> We've seen a roleplaying answer; now I'll toss in a
> pseudoscientific one. In official rules, bloodstrength is heritable (100%
> so: no environmental variance) and exhibits (again 100%!) regression
> towards the mean (i.e., the average value of childrens' bloodstrength is
> the average value of the parents'), as is characteristic of polygenic
> traits. ("Polygenic" means controlled by more than one gene, like height
> is. This is why height looks normally distributed: it's like flipping 20
> coins, some of them two-headed or two-tailed.) Let's think about what
> modelling it as one suggests.
> What do I mean by this? For computer types, it means combination
> of bloodline strengths is not by mathematical addition, but rather by
> bitwise OR(see footnote). In less technical terms, imagine a card game
> (standard poker deck) in which the point value of a hand is the number of
> distinct face values it contains: e.g., 10 J Q K A evaluates to 5, but J J
> J J Q Q Q evaluates to only 2. In this model, bloodline strength by name
> (e.g, major) is the number of cards in your hand, and bloodline point
> score is the value of your hand. I suddenly begin to like this idea more,
> as I have just explained how "great, 8" is possible and even probable in
> inbred families. Imagine this expanded to whatever number of bloodline
> points you think it takes to make a god (a thousand? a million?), and put
> that many distinct cards per derivation (suit) in your hypothetical deck.
> When the gods exploded, their "cards" were scattered randomly between the
> people close to them. Going back to "great, 8", this model can also be
> easily extended to explain why there are rules for losing blood points for
> bad actions, but not for gaining them by good ones: to lose a point, the
> land, through the magical link that provides RPs, can simply erase one of
> your existing cards; to gain one, you have to steal a new card from
> somebody else's hand.
> When you have children, they get copies of half your cards,
> selected at random. When you kill a blooded scion, you get 1, 2, 1/5 or
> 1/2 of their cards, also chosen randomly. Thus, if you kill your own
> child, you stand a fair chance of getting a copy of one of the cards you
> already hold, and thus not getting an increase; indeed, if you kill a
> child you had by a commoner, you are guaranteed to not get any new cards.
> This model does not limit the number of people who can be blooded (there
> can be arbitrarily many cards in the deck), but it does limit (albeit to
> an operationally infinite number) the number of blood points (the number
> of distinct types of cards in the deck) anyone can conceivably have.
> How would one modify existing rules to use this model? Almost not
> at all, except to say that killing your blood relatives gets you little or
> nothing. It should also mean that there is a slight chance that
> bloodtheft of anybody gets you nothing, but since even the strongest
> bloodlines around today are much less than the total power of the original
> gods, the chance of this is extremely small unless you are very closely
> related to someone. On the other hand, it does provide (and justify) a
> way to slow down the people at the top (e.g., the Gorgon) relative to
> others: for example, you might choose to say that since the Gorgon has
> killed so many scions of Anduiras that he has collected a fair portion of
> the cards of that suit, he should gain only half as many bloodline points
> from bloodtheft of one as he would from someone with the same strength but
> different derivation.
> Thank you for asking that question! I might never have thought of
> this otherwise. Yay BR discussion list! Now I know how bloodstrength
> works IMC, and what it is. =)

Strangely, I was thinking about something like this as a response to the
problem with the Gorgon being able to commit bloodtheft on his children as a
way of increasing his own abilities. My answer was a bit less erudite. It
went more along the lines of, "Well, uh, maybe you can't do a bloodtheft on
your offspring, because, you know, it's the same stuff in the blood if it's
your kid, right? I mean, by half or whatever. It's less of the same stuff, so
it wouldn't be able to effect your bloodline, because your's is more, and less
can't effect more, right? Unless less is really secretly more, but it can't be
because it all came from the same more, so it has to be less... Er, can it?"
At this point in the argument I wander off and sit in the corner and play with
blocks.

The reason I decided against it, however, is because I liked the possibility of
a Caine/Able conflict in a family unit, especially if the transfer of actual
mystical power was involved. If one can commit bloodtheft on a relative it
makes for a much more villainous kind of person don't you think?

- -Gary

[darkstar]

Ryan B. Caveney wrote:
>
> Keyplate72@aol.com wrote:
>
> > decided ten wives and mistresses giving birth...
> > l little bloodtheft...
> > wham...
> > a few years to great bloodline strength!!
>
Easy solution.
Just rule that a parent can not commit bloodtheft on their own children
and gain any bloodline points from it. The childs bloodline is too close
to the parents or something like that.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Wed, 27 May 1998 Keyplate72@aol.com wrote:

> I used to use a a scale to increase bloodstrength
> (exe minor to major) based off of the table in the rule
> book using blood score.
>
> Now I think that is a major flaw in Birthright.
> At least ever since I had a extremely evil PC who
> decided ten wives and mistresses giving birth...
> l little bloodtheft...
> wham...
> a few years to great bloodline strength!!
>
> Now I separate strength and score a little more.

I do essentially the same thing, only with a few modifiers to help derail
munchkinism. First, I rule that Bloodline scores develop over time as a
child grows. A baby has a bloodline score of zero, which increases slowly
as the child develops, reaching full fruition at the Age of Majority
(which is 13--a birthday which is a Big Deal for the children of nobles).
Also, I rule that the ability to increase in bloodline strength is not
automatic when a character reaches x bloodline points, rather it is a
rather expensive ceremony that much be conducted by the priest of one of
the gods, in which the PC (or NPC) gives up 10 bloodline points as well as
the GB and RP for the ceremony, and has a "100-Bloodline score" chance of
success--plus he must have behaved in a way pleasing to the god. This
makes it fairly easy to go from tained to minor, but pretty hard to go
from major to great, and almost impossible to go from Great to True (as it
should be: such an occasion would be almost the equivalent of a god
choosing a mortal champion). If the roll is a success, the bloodline
strength goes up. I don't do the same for downward turns, but I have
another way to keep the number of Great bloodlines from multipling: upon
marriage, although the derivation is transfered upon the offspring via the
greatest bloodline strength, the bloodline strength is conferred via the
parent with the highest bloodline score. Thus, a Great bloodline of
Masela with a strength of 9, married to a Minor bloodline of Vorynn with a
strength of 16, would produce offspring that were Minor bloodlines of
Masela, with strengths of 13.

Clear as mud?

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Alain Pouliot]

- ----------
> From: Mark A Vandermeulen
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Bloodline strength enhancement?
> Date: 31 mai, 1998 20:46
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 27 May 1998 Keyplate72@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I used to use a a scale to increase bloodstrength
> > (exe minor to major) based off of the table in the rule
> > book using blood score.
> >
> > Now I think that is a major flaw in Birthright.
> > At least ever since I had a extremely evil PC who
> > decided ten wives and mistresses giving birth...
> > l little bloodtheft...
> > wham...
> > a few years to great bloodline strength!!
> >
Greeting

I dont think bloodline strenght ans score it the same. They are not
related. The bloodline strenght is determine by your ancester. The high
marshall of each ancient god got True bloodline. The second in command got
great bloodline. That it. It immutable. When your roll the dice for your
bloodline score, you use the table 10 in the rulebook. I think this table
represent the average score of each bloodline strenght. Yes you could raise
your bloodline score after, and yes you could make a child with a bloodline
score of 60 but if you and his mother have a minor bloodline strenght he
have it too.

Am i right?

Snag
>
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[Keyplate72@aol.co]

The main point I was trying to make, was as
PCs advance in level, it becomes easier to
commit Bloodtheft.

IMC, only four in the first two years, but there
has been 3 this year alone. I fear it will increase
dramatically as level increases.

(PCs have more hit points toward the end of
battle to gamble with a called shot)

I'd rather not let Birthright turn into a Forgotten
Realm "free-for-all."

I wouldn't allow a 7th level PC rival the Gorgan
in either Blood strength or score. (Given the
time he has had to 'accumulate."

Now, I admit my "baby killing" example was vial
and very less than perfect, but my point was
for my PCs to increase strength, say from
major to great, they must be invested by one
with that particular strength.

There is no honor (for lack of a better word)
in killing a lesser scion or some 2nd level
guild master, wizard, etc...just to gain those
additional points needed to increase to the
next strength level.

On the other hand, try and bloodtheft Rhobhe
and then escape thousands of fanatic elven
warriors, that is worth advancement. I believe
both are near imposibilities for mid-level
PCs.

Now I understand the Gorgan increased his
bloodline though the bloodtheft of many scions,
and i'm sure none even came close to being
his rival on the battlefield, but I believe that
only increased his bloodline score.

IMC I don't want it to be a race of "who can kill
the most low level scions," but, rather to increase
one's bloodline strength, as Ryan B. Caveney wrote:
>you have to steal a new card somebody else's hand.

IMC you would have to steal the entire "hand" of
someone who had a stronger "hand" in the first
place.

Possible complete rambling,
Brad S.