Question...

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

Hello,

i was just looking over my warcards in the boxed set, and i have
a strange question. Using the domain action Modify Unit, you can increase
a units attack. follow me so far? well, i was looking at the missle
attack rating on the anuirean archers, and comparing that to the defense
of the anuirean knights. now the large icon for the archers was the
crossed swords, and the icon for the knights was the sheild. so subtract
the knights defense (4) from the archers attack (4, +1 vs mounted units,
=5) so on the battle card for resolving attacks, the result is +1, which
under the crossed swords and shield is H (defending unit takes one hit).
Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the attack,
you get a worse result? if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love to
hear what the result was.

(or is there a new Result Card that takes the Modify Unit action into
account?)

Thanks,
Llynthabhe Fhrost
Guilder Wizard of the Aelvinwode

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[The Olesen`s]

Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> i was just looking over my warcards in the boxed set, and i have
> a strange question. Using the domain action Modify Unit, you can increase
> a units attack. follow me so far? well, i was looking at the missle
> attack rating on the anuirean archers, and comparing that to the defense
> of the anuirean knights. now the large icon for the archers was the
> crossed swords, and the icon for the knights was the sheild. so subtract
> the knights defense (4) from the archers attack (4, +1 vs mounted units,
> =5) so on the battle card for resolving attacks, the result is +1, which
> under the crossed swords and shield is H (defending unit takes one hit).
> Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
> the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
> no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the attack,
> you get a worse result?

See example below for revised example |
\ /

if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love to
> hear what the result was.
>
> (or is there a new Result Card that takes the Modify Unit action into
> account?)

There is more than one battle result card and each has diffrent results.
Also diffrent cards for the same unbit have diffrent icons. This is
very similar to dice in "regular" AD&D


For example:
An exprienced warrior (TAHC0 10) has a long sword and tries to hit a
common soldier( who has AC 5). He needs a 5 or better to hit but rolls a
1.

The same warrior is weilding a long sword +29 and tries to hit the same
guy. Again he rolls a 1 (1 ALWAYS misses) and misses, even with a goldy
powered sword.



You could make up a dice system for the War Cards.
The better way is to make the result cards into a pile and pick a random
card from it.




IMPROVED EXAMPLE:

Knights: Def-4 Icon-Shield
Archers: Missile-5(6 with edit unit) Icon-Sword

Result from card #106
w/o Improvement: Knights are Routed (ie. take a kit and must flee)
w/ Improvement (missile 6): Knights take only a hit

Result from card #109
w/o Improvemnt: Knights take a hit
w/ Improvement: Kngihts are destroyed


Thats that.

Card #s are from the boxed set cards (not Cities of the Sun, Blood
Enemies, etc.)

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Sat, 23 May 1998, Erik M Samhammer wrote:

> Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
> the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
> no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the attack,
> you get a worse result? if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love to
> hear what the result was.
>
> (or is there a new Result Card that takes the Modify Unit action into
> account?)

The same general thing comes into effect when you have a general with the
"Battlewise" blood ability: some of the time, the modifier which the
general gets actually makes the result WORSE. To resolve this we've used
the simple addition to the rules: the general gets the BETTER OF THE TWO
OPTIONS, either the modified or unmodified score, whichever he chooses
(and he may choose to take the hit, if he's setting up some kind of
gambit, but that hasn't happened in any of our games). I suspect that you
could use something similar in the case of a Modified Unit.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[The Olesen`s]

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
>
> On Sat, 23 May 1998, Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>
> > Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
> > the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
> > no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the attack,
> > you get a worse result? if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love to
> > hear what the result was.
> >
> > (or is there a new Result Card that takes the Modify Unit action into
> > account?)
>
> The same general thing comes into effect when you have a general with the
> "Battlewise" blood ability: some of the time, the modifier which the
> general gets actually makes the result WORSE. To resolve this we've used
> the simple addition to the rules: the general gets the BETTER OF THE TWO
> OPTIONS, either the modified or unmodified score, whichever he chooses
> (and he may choose to take the hit, if he's setting up some kind of
> gambit, but that hasn't happened in any of our games). I suspect that you
> could use something similar in the case of a Modified Unit.
>
> Mark VanderMeulen
> vander+@pitt.edu


I would say no because this has to do with chance. If you went and
compiled all the battle result cards you'd find sometinhg like this:
(out of ten cards, explanation purposes only)

- -3 or less: 1 D, 2 H, 5 F, 2 no effects
0: 2 D, 2 H, 3 F, 3 no effects
+3 or better: 3 D, 4 H, 2 R, 1 no effect

Like my previous example (another e-mail), A fighter could have a
normal sword and roll a 18 and hit the bad guy. Later he picks up a
sword +1 (battlewise or modify unit) and attacks the same bad guy but
rolls a 5 and misses.

If you don't belive me, do this:

1. Buy a big block of wood and make it into a die with enough sides for
all the battle result cards and the sides the exact same size as the
battle result cards.

2. Glue a battle result card to each side.

3. During battles roll this big die to see what card to use.


OR you could just pick a battle result card at random from a pile.


Even the greatest commanders lose some battles.

[Clayton F. Hinton]

At 02:08 PM 5/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>On Sat, 23 May 1998, Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>

>
>The same general thing comes into effect when you have a general with the
>"Battlewise" blood ability: some of the time, the modifier which the
>general gets actually makes the result WORSE. To resolve this we've used
>the simple addition to the rules: the general gets the BETTER OF THE TWO
>OPTIONS, either the modified or unmodified score, whichever he chooses
>(and he may choose to take the hit, if he's setting up some kind of
>gambit, but that hasn't happened in any of our games). I suspect that you
>could use something similar in the case of a Modified Unit.
>

Wait, are we all remembering that the Battle cards are designed for
randomness? A +1 shift will result in a better overall average, if you
take ALL the battle cards into account. By allowing a commander to pick
and choose for himself which bonuses he gets to use, you are giving him
more of an advantage than he should get. It's not a dice system we're
using for the battles, it's a Card system. In the end, if you fiddle with
it you are fiddling with the randomness, which is just like using weighted
dice. This is the equivalent of allowing both a +1 to a d6 roll, AND
allowing all 1's to be re-rolled, when the only bonus called for is the +1.

- -Clay Hinton

>Mark VanderMeulen
>vander+@pitt.edu
>
>************************************************* **************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Alain Pouliot]

- ----------
> From: Mark A Vandermeulen
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Question...
> Date: 25 mai, 1998 14:08
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 May 1998, Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>
> > Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
> > the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
> > no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the
attack,
> > you get a worse result? if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love
to
> > hear what the result was.
> >
> > (or is there a new Result Card that takes the Modify Unit action into
> > account?)
>
> The same general thing comes into effect when you have a general with the
> "Battlewise" blood ability: some of the time, the modifier which the
> general gets actually makes the result WORSE. To resolve this we've used
> the simple addition to the rules: the general gets the BETTER OF THE TWO
> OPTIONS, either the modified or unmodified score, whichever he chooses
> (and he may choose to take the hit, if he's setting up some kind of
> gambit, but that hasn't happened in any of our games). I suspect that you
> could use something similar in the case of a Modified Unit.
>
> Mark VanderMeulen
> vander+@pitt.edu
>
I think this homerule make the battlewise ability to powerfull. It so
simple, you must look the overall result not at one warcard.

Snag
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[craig@finance.econ.usyd.]

At 09:10 PM 23/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
> i was just looking over my warcards in the boxed set, and i have
>a strange question. Using the domain action Modify Unit, you can increase
>a units attack. follow me so far? well, i was looking at the missle
>attack rating on the anuirean archers, and comparing that to the defense
>of the anuirean knights. now the large icon for the archers was the
>crossed swords, and the icon for the knights was the sheild. so subtract
>the knights defense (4) from the archers attack (4, +1 vs mounted units,
>=5) so on the battle card for resolving attacks, the result is +1, which
>under the crossed swords and shield is H (defending unit takes one hit).
> Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
>the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
>no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the attack,
>you get a worse result? if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love to
>hear what the result was.
>
>(or is there a new Result Card that takes the Modify Unit action into
>account?)
>
>Thanks,
>Llynthabhe Fhrost
>Guilder Wizard of the Aelvinwode
>
My suggestion is ignore the card there a waste of time - use battlesystem
instead.
Craig

__________________________________________________ ___________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>************************************************* **************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>
>

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-05-23 21:17:52 EDT, you write:

> Now, my question is, that if you use the Modify unit to improve
> the archers missle rating, the new result is +2, which is "a miss, with
> no other effects." does this make sense? that if you improve the attack,
> you get a worse result? if anyone has run into this problem, i'd love to
> hear what the result was.
>
You must look at all the resoluction cards. Odds are, at +2 you will hit 33%
more often than at +1 (If I remember by analysis correctly ;)

- -D