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Thread: Mage vs priest
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11-30-1997, 12:00 AM #1BearcatGuest
Mage vs priest
>I think priest are more powerfull. Just think about the temples
>incomes.
>Think about the staff you have. As a highpriest you could have 50
>priest on
>the battlefield. Wizard are alone and poor... Yes the wizard realm
>spells
>are more powerfull but a think priest are more power in Cerilia. How
>can
>High mage Aelis could figth the western imperial temple of Haelyn????
>
>Someone can answer me??? I think not!!!!!!!!!
>
Imagine I you will, a realm spell. Not an ordinary realm spell mind
you, but a truly effective anti magic user (this includes clerics) spell:
Mass Insomnia or something like that. The inhabitants of the target province
are unable to sleep for the duration of the spell. Not only would this truly
degrade a province's productivity and make everyone in general quite cranky,
it would also prevent mages and clerics the eight hours of sleep neccessary
to regain spells. This would cripple the WIT's magical might in the face aof
a threat from Aelies, who would then proceed to make magical mincemeat out
of them....
Just an idea :)
Bearcat
lcgm@elogica.com.br
Come visit Bearcat's Birthright Homepage at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/6204
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05-16-1998, 02:05 PM #2Alain PouliotGuest
Mage vs priest
- ----------
> From: Clayton F. Hinton
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Battle Mages
> Date: 13 mai, 1998 19:00
>
> My feeling is that the Middle Earth elves were the "chosen of the gods,"
> and deserve all the praise in the world. But Cerilian elves are just
> faries, elfs that only worry about their own superiority and their own
> little version of reality.
>
> -Clay
>
> >
> >funny you say that, when cerilian elves are so much more tolkienesque
than
> >in any other ad&d setting =)
> >
> >cheers,
> >
> >-nick
> >
I think priest are more powerfull. Just think about the temples incomes.
Think about the staff you have. As a highpriest you could have 50 priest on
the battlefield. Wizard are alone and poor... Yes the wizard realm spells
are more powerfull but a think priest are more power in Cerilia. How can
High mage Aelis could figth the western imperial temple of Haelyn????
Someone can answer me??? I think not!!!!!!!!!
Snag.
a experienced wizard. Sniff.
>
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05-16-1998, 05:26 PM #3veryfastperson@juno.comGuest
Mage vs priest
O
>I think priest are more powerfull. Just think about the temples
>incomes.
>Think about the staff you have. As a highpriest you could have 50
>priest on
>the battlefield. Wizard are alone and poor... Yes the wizard realm
>spells
>are more powerfull but a think priest are more power in Cerilia. How
>can
>High mage Aelis could figth the western imperial temple of Haelyn????
>
>Someone can answer me??? I think not!!!!!!!!!
don't mind me, but i have always favored the mage over the priest - and
in response to your challenge of how the high mage can fight the western
imperial temple, he doesn't have to. unless he chooses to, of course. for
the high mage chooses his fights, and if he did indeed fight (or go up
against) the western imperial temple - he would win. "How?" you ask -
very simply. the high mage has lived many years, and knows how to win.
making agreements with various rulers, and such; powerful realm spells,
and whatever else is needed to win. you say that a priest has 50 or so
priests on a battlefield, but a wizard is never alone and poor. he has
apprentices, lieutenants, servants, friends, allies, vassals, armies, etc
- - to deal with whatever problems aries. don't count wizards out as being
under priests, because the first mistake, is underestimating an opponent
(which i could see happening between the Western Imperial Temple and High
Mage Alies)
don't mind me :)
Erik
>
>Snag.
>a experienced wizard. Sniff.
>
>>
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05-16-1998, 07:11 PM #4SythrycGuest
Mage vs priest
In a message dated 98-05-16 10:15:28 EDT, you write:
>
Well then as an experienced wizard you would know that any mage would use
their intelligence. mages can summon armies, raise legions of undead, and
control enemy units and holdings to name a few. i do believe priests,
wizards, fighters, and rogues to each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
of course in certain arenas one definitely outweighs the others but overall
each can hold their own.
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05-16-1998, 07:19 PM #5Ryan B. CaveneyGuest
Mage vs priest
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Alain Pouliot wrote:
> I think priest are more powerfull. Just think about the temples incomes.
> Think about the staff you have.
The question is, what do you mean by "power"? Individual
important wizards are generally more powerful personally than individual
important priests; this is very much because personal prowess is simply
not nearly as important to a priest as to a wizard.
Wizards are loners, and like to become powerful by locking
themselves away in obscure retreats to conduct research; priests become
powerful by preaching in the cities and swaying the opinions of the
general populace.
Of course priests have greater obvious influence over day-to-day
life: it's what they want, and not usually what wizards want -- or if it
is what certain wizards want, that's not how they generally go about it.
A church (as it exists in BR -- not to say that I don't think the
following is just as true as in real life, but I don't want to get into
that argument just now) is a money-making scheme for political control:
the "sacred" priest is much more closely attached to the trappings of
direct temporal power than the "secular" wizard.
Wizards as a stereotype prefer to work behind the scenes, never
letting anyone know just how powerful they are until it is too late.
In some sense, this is because a priest's main "sales pitch" is directed
to the common people at large, whereas a wizard's power base is allied
regents, whose feelings are much less visible. Further, I sort of think
that wizards who do want power are almost a step higher up on the
powerhungry scale. That is, priests who want political control tend to
view secular regents as their competitors: they want the commoners to be
more loyal to god and church than country. Wizards with a political bent,
on the other hand, generally don't care what the people think, so long as
they do what the wizard wants: they tend to view non-wizard regents as
their pawns in a grander game.
With regard to your hypothetical question, why would High Mage
Aelies *want* to fight the Western Imperial Temple? And if he did, what
would "fight" mean? The only real source of conflict I can presently
envision is if the church wanted increased settlement of the Erebannien in
order to have more people under its leadership, thus reducing Aelies's
sources. This he would certainly oppose, but he would equally certainly
not do it on the battlefield: he would instead go to talk personally with
the local rulers, to convince them to direct settlement somewhere else.
I think he'd probably win a political battle, which is the only kind he'd
fight against the WIT. Unless, of course, they decided he was a heretic
who needed to be exterminated: in which case his lack of obvious temporal
power would be to his advantage, because the WIT would have much to
protect from him, but no targets to attack.
- --Ryan
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05-17-1998, 11:07 AM #6KirbyRanmaGuest
Mage vs priest
Hello all,
I think the argument of which is better is pretty much pointless. One
worships a divine being and gets spells due to faith and loyalty, the other is
power hungry and gets spells through bending nature. The mages may have more
combative spells, but priests have more healing spells. You need one of each,
at least. Just like a knight is pretty darn impressive, but you need that
scout as well. If it was simple, the other classes wouldn't be played.
As for the High Mage Aelis attacking the Impregnible Heart of Haelyn, I
don't think he'd do that (despite his power, there is only one of him) and he
has much more pressing matters to tend to than attacking a faith. Just ask
the last guy who asked him if he could log the forest.
Take care all,
Kirby
"The greatest player this side of that player that sits across from me."
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05-19-1998, 03:34 PM #7Pieter A de JongGuest
Mage vs priest
At 10:05 AM 5/16/98 -0400, Snag wrote:
>
>I think priest are more powerfull. Just think about the temples incomes.
>Think about the staff you have. As a highpriest you could have 50 priest on
>the battlefield. Wizard are alone and poor... Yes the wizard realm spells
>are more powerfull but a think priest are more power in Cerilia. How can
>High mage Aelis could figth the western imperial temple of Haelyn????
>
>Someone can answer me??? I think not!!!!!!!!!
>
>Snag.
>a experienced wizard. Sniff.
>
Point 1 : Aelies has lieutenants, and apprentices as well, not to mention
that many of the local lords owe him big favors for help he has given them
in the past.
Point 2 : For his own tactics, attack the fingers inside the steel gauntlet.
ie. go after individual characters. Use things like the invisible stalker
spells. He can cast at least 3 invisible stalker spells a day. Cast all 3
and send them as a group to assasinate and individual junior priest, and the
aforementioned priest just dies. Spend a month doing this (realm action)
and the church hierarchy tends to take a header.
Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
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05-19-1998, 03:49 PM #8Pieter A de JongGuest
Mage vs priest
At 09:15 AM 5/17/98 -0300, Bearcat wrote:
>
> Imagine I you will, a realm spell. Not an ordinary realm spell mind
>you, but a truly effective anti magic user (this includes clerics) spell:
>Mass Insomnia or something like that. The inhabitants of the target province
>are unable to sleep for the duration of the spell. Not only would this truly
>degrade a province's productivity and make everyone in general quite cranky,
>it would also prevent mages and clerics the eight hours of sleep neccessary
>to regain spells. This would cripple the WIT's magical might in the face aof
>a threat from Aelies, who would then proceed to make magical mincemeat out
>of them....
>
>Just an idea :)
>
I shouldn't be bringing this up, but the elves would love this spell! Why?
They don't sleep in the first place. Can you think of a better way to chase
all the nasty humans out of your province than saying sorry, you can't sleep
here until this spell goes down (3 months?, 3 years?).
Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
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05-19-1998, 05:33 PM #9Rasmus Juul WagnerGuest
Mage vs priest
Pieter A de Jong wrote:
>
> At 10:05 AM 5/16/98 -0400, Snag wrote:
> >
> >I think priest are more powerfull. Just think about the temples incomes.
> >Think about the staff you have. As a highpriest you could have 50 priest on
> >the battlefield. Wizard are alone and poor... Yes the wizard realm spells
> >are more powerfull but a think priest are more power in Cerilia. How can
> >High mage Aelis could figth the western imperial temple of Haelyn????
> >
> >Someone can answer me??? I think not!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >Snag.
> >a experienced wizard. Sniff.
> >
> Point 1 : Aelies has lieutenants, and apprentices as well, not to mention
> that many of the local lords owe him big favors for help he has given them
> in the past.
> Point 2 : For his own tactics, attack the fingers inside the steel gauntlet.
> ie. go after individual characters. Use things like the invisible stalker
> spells. He can cast at least 3 invisible stalker spells a day. Cast all 3
> and send them as a group to assasinate and individual junior priest, and the
> aforementioned priest just dies. Spend a month doing this (realm action)
> and the church hierarchy tends to take a header.
Valid idea, but it does have a few flaws. Namely, protection from evil.
And that 4th-level priest spell from ToM that makes it possible to have
it affect an area, such as a temple, for a year. But it would still be
crippling to the temple organization if they had to worry about stalkers
all the time.
A paradigm of AD&D is the incredible power of direct, individual action.
As a 16th level mage, he could hide nearby, Dimension Door into the
temple, throw a full days allotment of destructive spells inside the
temple (as well as using magical items), protected by spells, summoned
bodyguards (such as invisible stalkers), Contingency spell to get him
out, Teleport Without error if he has to go far away very quickly, a
Clone growing back home in the unlikely event that he should perish, and
so on. Unless the deity chose to manifest an avatar, who could stop him?
The High Priest? Not too bloody likely.
So, the high mage would kill everyone in the building. By himself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Preemptive Retribution"
Rasmus Juul Wagner
Technical University of Denmark
c958650@student.dtu.dk
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Stadium/7859
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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