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  1. #1
    Gary V. Foss

    Build College and philosophical

    Jonathan Picklesimer wrote:

    > First, as far as cooperating religions go, I must disagree with the person
    > who said that it would be unlikely for several churches to work together.
    > Pie in the sky pure academics would indicate that it would be in the best
    > intrest of education that they did. We, of course, know that this does
    > not work. What does work? POLITICS. If I, as the high priest of the
    > temple of Rournil, allow the college to be ran basically by the Andurians,
    > what is going to happen to my temple? Eventually it will fall out of
    > favor with the nobility because all of the nobility would have been
    > educated by the Adurians. Not good. I cannot allow any other religion to
    > gain a foothold that I cannot counter. As a priest of Rournil, I can
    > temper the teachings of the war god with the need to protect nature. I can
    > not temper these lessons after the students have been fully converted to
    > think about the world from the Andurian perspective.

    I don't know that politics is quite the force of unity, goodwill and
    cooperation that you suggest. Isn't it more likely that in view of the
    political situation you describe that each of these individual religious
    movements would start up their own educational institutions, independant of one
    another, each fighting to control the education of the elite?

    > The only other thing I want to talk about is the "realism" debate that was
    > spawned by some of my comments. Can our fictional worlds function exactly
    > like the RW or duplicate the history of earth? Of course not! However,
    > it is the only paradigm that we have. How do we know that university
    > students are likely to rebel? Because every university student we know
    > rebels. I find it amusing that one of hte people who was stridently
    > opposing the RW influence in role playing cited university uprisings as a
    > possible effect of having a university, based upon his RW observations!

    Me? Strident? Whoo-hoo! I'm strident! Yee-haw! I just love being
    strident! Kinda sounds like a new awnsheghlien, doesn't it? The Strident!

    I think if you go back and read my original post on this subject, you'll find
    that I pretty much agreed with what you said above. I wrote, "Jonathan's
    description, [of the historical influence of religion on universities] however,
    was excellent and I found it very interesting. As an example, I think that
    description could be quite useful. Unfortunately, we haven't much to work with
    aside from examples from history. Such examples, however, should be taken with
    a grain of salt, not only because they may not really fit into a campaign
    world, but because the influences that created them differ greatly from those
    that would exist in the campaign world.

    If we are going to use historical examples to flesh out a campaign world we
    should not forget to include other gaming influences that would be hugely
    influential. Magic, being the big one, but also including the existence of
    gods, drastically different races, intelligent monsters, etc. These things
    would really throw a kink in the machinery of history in the RW if they made an
    appearance. They would have a signficant influence upon the history of a game

    Anyway, I think there's a little confusion here between the forces of
    realism/historical accuracy and we glassy-eyed, anti-realist dreamers. Yes, I
    pointed out riots by students as a possibile result of founding a university
    based upon my RW observations, but I don't think that was really an application
    of history to the RPG universe. I'd rather call it an application of human
    nature. Sure, students riot. So do sports fans, concert goers, people at a
    wake, attendees at the more interesting political conventions, etc. People
    have a quaint need to burn things and break windows when they are disgruntled.
    I'm from Los Angeles, I know....


  2. #2
    Tim Nutting

    Build College and philosophical

  3. #3
    Tim Nutting

    Build College and philosophical

    cooperation that you suggest. Isn't it more likely that in view of the
    > political situation you describe that each of these individual religious
    > movements would start up their own educational institutions, independant
    of one
    > another, each fighting to control the education of the elite?

    Okay, 1) Gary - my memory may have faltered and the post previous this one
    I may have accidentally taken credit for one of your posts, sorry if it was
    all you and I'm just a loser with a poor memory, but I think we both pretty
    much said the same thing.

    2) I am preparing to be laughed at for the following, but here goes:

    Ever seen Starhip Troopers? Of all things I was watching that the other
    night as a no brainer, it being my second time, and I actually started
    picking up some serious threads in the movie. I had heard that the movie
    was very similar in some elements to "All Quiet on the Western Front", an
    older German movie about the ethics of WWII - so maybe the following is
    just a copy of another source, but ST is where I caught the line.

    In the classroom scenario that outlies the politics of this very
    Hitleresque facist world, the old vet outlines some of the most basic
    thoughts and foundations, that voting was essentially the exercising of
    force, and merely an extension of violence. Also it was mentioned the
    violence had been used to settle more issues in the world than any other
    social engine.

    Where the hell am I going with this?

    Politics is not friendly - at all. I see this in our society (USA) as well
    as others where there's more machine guns. Politics is about getting
    exactly what you want while limiting the gains of your opposition/enemy.
    Those, coincidentally, are the same goals as physical war.

    Politics is the best form of warfare invented yet, as you may actually have
    less to lose (sometimes) and you definitely are not wasting money on supply
    lines and training soldiers.

    Tim Nutting

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