Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    > 1. Should a priest who has minor access to a sphere (eg Haelyn &
    > Nercomatic) be allowed to cast realm spells in that Sphere (eg Legion of
    > dead). Another example is priests of Avani with minor access to creation
    > and the maintain armies realm spell.

    Personally, I'd say yes, with a fair bit of GM ruling on the matter.
    If the use of the realm spell (and, indeed, the spell itself) was all
    fine and dandy as far as the god's religion went, eg. a priest
    of Avani using Maintain Army on his templar knights, then I don't see
    a problem. On the other hand, if the tenets of the faith don't agree
    with the spell or its uses, eg. that priest of Haelyn trying to
    summon hordes of undead warriors - definitely not a noble or decent
    thing to do - then I'd argue that the god refuses to grant that
    particular request. If the player finds a way around it, then their
    god should stiff 'em for breaking the faith....... hehehe.......

    > Also if you think that minor access to a sphere allows the realm spells
    > to be cast then should only the lower level realm spell be avalible.
    > This would mean that Maintain Armies which requires a level 2 caster can
    > be cast by priests of Avani but Legion of Dead which requires a level 5
    > caster can not be cast by priests of Haelyn?

    Again, I'd keep it as read that the Minor access level restriction
    applies to realm spells just as it does to normal magic. If Haelyn
    doesn't grant you the ability to raise the dead as a persoanl spell,
    I see no reason why he'd let you get away with doing it on a national
    level, no matter how nicely the priest asks.

    John.

    "Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
    the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
    different universe."
    "And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
    "No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
    - David Gemmel, Waylander

  2. #2
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    darkstar wrote:

    > This is a question that has had me wondering for the past hour so I
    > thought I would ask everyone else for their opinion.
    >
    > 1. Should a priest who has minor access to a sphere (eg Haelyn &
    > Nercomatic) be allowed to cast realm spells in that Sphere (eg Legion of
    > dead). Another example is priests of Avani with minor access to creation
    > and the maintain armies realm spell.
    >
    > Also if you think that minor access to a sphere allows the realm spells
    > to be cast then should only the lower level realm spell be avalible.
    > This would mean that Maintain Armies which requires a level 2 caster can
    > be cast by priests of Avani but Legion of Dead which requires a level 5
    > caster can not be cast by priests of Haelyn?
    >
    > So what does everyone think?

    I'd be inclined to a version of the second possibility you desribed, but I
    think the priest of Haelyn would be able to cast the Legion of Dead spell--if
    you forget about the alignment conflict, that is. Minor access lets a priest
    cast spells of up to 3rd level. Priests gain fourth level spells at 7th level,
    so I'd let a priest with minor access to a sphere cast a realm spell from that
    sphere if the spell had a character level of 6th or lower.

    It's kind of confusing that Realm spells use character level instead of spell
    level, isn't it?

    - -Gary

  3. #3
    darkstar
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    Gary V. Foss wrote:

    > > So what does everyone think?
    >
    > I'd be inclined to a version of the second possibility you desribed, but I
    > think the priest of Haelyn would be able to cast the Legion of Dead spell--if
    > you forget about the alignment conflict, that is. Minor access lets a priest
    > cast spells of up to 3rd level. Priests gain fourth level spells at 7th level,
    > so I'd let a priest with minor access to a sphere cast a realm spell from that
    > sphere if the spell had a character level of 6th or lower.

    For some reason I keep thinking that minor access is 1st and 2nd level
    spell. I guess I have been DM spelljammer games for too long. As for the
    Alignment conflict for Priest's of Haelyn there is none. They can be
    Lawful Evil and so for some priests summoning undead may seem as a means
    of protecting the law. I am not sure Haelyn would think this way though,
    God of Noble Warfare and all that.


    > It's kind of confusing that Realm spells use character level instead of spell
    > level, isn't it?

    Very

    - --
    Ian Hoskins

    e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
    Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
    ICQ: 2938300

  4. #4
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:18:18 +0930 darkstar writes:
    >This is a question that has had me wondering for the past hour so I
    >thought I would ask everyone else for their opinion.
    >
    >1. Should a priest who has minor access to a sphere (eg Haelyn &
    >Nercomatic) be allowed to cast realm spells in that Sphere (eg Legion
    >of
    >dead). Another example is priests of Avani with minor access to
    >creation
    >and the maintain armies realm spell.
    >
    >Also if you think that minor access to a sphere allows the realm
    >spells
    >to be cast then should only the lower level realm spell be avalible.
    >This would mean that Maintain Armies which requires a level 2 caster
    >can
    >be cast by priests of Avani but Legion of Dead which requires a level
    >5
    >caster can not be cast by priests of Haelyn?
    >
    >So what does everyone think?
    >
    >--
    >Ian Hoskins

    Well, hmmm. Very good question. In my esteemed, valued and highly
    learned view (read: ignorant opinion;), I say minor access does not allow
    realm spells of that sphere. Why? Well, if the god has decided that the
    priesthood cannot cast powerful normal spells from that sphere, then why
    would it be OK to suddenly cast massively huge powerful spells that
    affect an entire province from that sphere? It just doesn't make sense.

    "Oh, I'm sorry, you can't cast that 4th level spell, there, priestess
    girl. But instead, cast the realm spell version and not only affect what
    you wanted to, but the other 40,000 people in this province as well!" -
    some god to a follower

    Just doesn't make a lot of sense, eh?

    Benjamin

    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
    Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
    Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

  5. #5
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    Benjamin W Loebick wrote:

    > Well, hmmm. Very good question. In my esteemed, valued and highly
    > learned view (read: ignorant opinion;), I say minor access does not allow
    > realm spells of that sphere. Why? Well, if the god has decided that the
    > priesthood cannot cast powerful normal spells from that sphere, then why
    > would it be OK to suddenly cast massively huge powerful spells that
    > affect an entire province from that sphere? It just doesn't make sense.
    >
    > "Oh, I'm sorry, you can't cast that 4th level spell, there, priestess
    > girl. But instead, cast the realm spell version and not only affect what
    > you wanted to, but the other 40,000 people in this province as well!" -
    > some god to a follower

    I don't know, I think this depends on what your interpretation of a realm spell
    is. As I see it there are two possible interpretations here. Realm spells are
    either 10th level spells (or 8th level spells in the case of priests, I
    suppose) or they are jacked up versions of lower level spells.

    Personally, I'm inclined towards the latter interpretation. Here are my
    arguments:

    1. Time: It takes a month to cast a realm spell. Theoretically, a character
    could simply memorize and cast the lower level version of the spell a few dozen
    times and get pretty close to the same result. Take the Legion of Dead spell.
    A character able to use that spell would be able to create a like number of
    skeletons/zombies in the same 30 day period just by casting the regular version
    of the spell dozens of times.

    2. The use the Character Level as a means of determining the ability to cast a
    realm spell: If realm spells were 10th (8th) level spells, then characters
    would supposedly have to max out in their experience level before casting them
    wouldn't they? A first level priest/regent would have access to a Bless Army
    spell at all.

    So I think the ability to cast the "normal" version of the spell means a
    character should have the ability to cast the realm version. The ability to
    cast a realm spell to me is just spell casting ability+a
    bloodline+RPs+GPs+Source/Temple holding.

    Which brings to light a situation regarding wizard realm spells. What if the
    character was unable to cast the "lesser" version of a realm spell? Do you
    think a wizard should be allowed to learn and cast the Dispel Realm Magic spell
    if s/he does not understand Dispel Magic spell?

    I don't think so myself. I have a house rule that says if you don't understand
    a lower level version of a spell you can't learn the higher level version. A
    character who knows Bigby's Gentle Handshake, but doesn't understand Bigby's
    Slapping Hand can't learn Bigby's Crushing Grip of Death, for instance.

    This could, of course, lead to some problems later on. What if a character
    finds the spells out of order, or cannot learn a lower level version due to the
    max spells/level intelligence limit? Frankly, this hasn't happened yet, and
    I'd be inclined to let it slide. I'd automatically let a wizard learn a lower
    level version of a spell or just say that the inability to learn a new lower
    level spell has no effect on knowing the higher level version.

    Does this stuff sound OK to you folks, or should I take up finger painting as a
    hobby instead of role-playing?

    - -Gary

  6. #6
    Brett Lang
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    I agree with beniamen (see below). It seems unreasonable to me that a diety
    would allow such spells to his followers. If one takes into account the
    requirements for a priest to be granted a QUEST spell, allowing a priest
    access to a REALM spell, when he has only minor access (and assunming a
    QUEST spell is an 8th level cleric spell, and a REALM spell is say 9th level
    clerical magic), seems rather unjustified (to me anyway).

    Of course, if the god decided the situation warranted the bestowal of the
    spell it would happen anyway (but this would have to be an ethos shaking
    event from the dieties point of view).

    In my own campaign, a priest must have major access to a sphere to be able
    to cast REALM spells from that sphere. Personally I think that TSR should
    include this rule option/change in its new hardcover rules release.

    Anyway that my thoughts on the subject.

    Sweet water and light laughter until next.
    Warlock.


    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Benjamin W Loebick
    To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    Date: Thursday, 30 April 1998 5:17
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Priest Realm Spells and minor access to spheres.


    >
    >On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:18:18 +0930 darkstar writes:
    >>This is a question that has had me wondering for the past hour so I
    >>thought I would ask everyone else for their opinion.
    >>
    >>1. Should a priest who has minor access to a sphere (eg Haelyn &
    >>Nercomatic) be allowed to cast realm spells in that Sphere (eg Legion
    >>of
    >>dead). Another example is priests of Avani with minor access to
    >>creation
    >>and the maintain armies realm spell.
    >>
    >>Also if you think that minor access to a sphere allows the realm
    >>spells
    >>to be cast then should only the lower level realm spell be avalible.
    >>This would mean that Maintain Armies which requires a level 2 caster
    >>can
    >>be cast by priests of Avani but Legion of Dead which requires a level
    >>5
    >>caster can not be cast by priests of Haelyn?
    >>
    >>So what does everyone think?
    >>
    >>--
    >>Ian Hoskins
    >
    >Well, hmmm. Very good question. In my esteemed, valued and highly
    >learned view (read: ignorant opinion;), I say minor access does not allow
    >realm spells of that sphere. Why? Well, if the god has decided that the
    >priesthood cannot cast powerful normal spells from that sphere, then why
    >would it be OK to suddenly cast massively huge powerful spells that
    >affect an entire province from that sphere? It just doesn't make sense.
    >
    >"Oh, I'm sorry, you can't cast that 4th level spell, there, priestess
    >girl. But instead, cast the realm spell version and not only affect what
    >you wanted to, but the other 40,000 people in this province as well!" -
    >some god to a follower
    >
    >Just doesn't make a lot of sense, eh?
    >
    >Benjamin
    >
    >_________________________________________________ ____________________
    >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
    >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
    >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
    >
    >************************************************* **************************
    >>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  7. #7
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    Brett Lang wrote:

    > I agree with beniamen (see below). It seems unreasonable to me that a diety
    > would allow such spells to his followers. If one takes into account the
    > requirements for a priest to be granted a QUEST spell, allowing a priest
    > access to a REALM spell, when he has only minor access (and assunming a
    > QUEST spell is an 8th level cleric spell, and a REALM spell is say 9th level
    > clerical magic), seems rather unjustified (to me anyway).

    Man, this whole level-this, level-that thing makes this really confusing. I'm
    going to try a couple of abbreviations here, OK? CL=Character level. SL=Spell
    level.

    If a priest has minor access to a sphere s/he can cast spells up to 3rd SL
    right? Priests gain 4th SL spells at 7th CL, so a priest with minor access to a
    sphere should be able to cast realm spells that are listed as having a CL of 6th
    or less.

    In the example you gave above, the priest with minor access to the
    Enchantment/Charm sphere could not cast the Quest realm spell as it is listed as
    requiring a CL of 9th.

    - -Gary

  8. #8
    KirbyRanma
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    In a message dated 98-04-29 11:38:54 EDT, you write:

    "Should a priest who has minor access to a sphere (eg Haelyn & Nercomatic) be
    allowed to cast realm spells in that Sphere (eg Legion of dead). Another
    example is priests of Avani with minor access to creation and the maintain
    armies realm spell."

    I would say yes, IF the priest is part of a temple that would be allow
    him/her to cast that spell and if the realm spell is a priest spell. In other
    words, if it's a 0 level holding, then no, but if it's like 3rd or 4th, then
    all 1st & 3rd "level" realm spells could be cast. Does this make sense? Also
    of note/opinion. I think a PALADIN would only be able to cast realm spells
    one he/she reached 9th level (when Paladins are able to cast spells). Now, I
    don't have the rule book, so if my thoughts are going against the rules, don't
    flame me and send me off to Azrai!

    Take care all,
    Kirby

  9. #9
    Trankel Al Ker
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    At 09:26 PM 29/04/98 -0700, Gary V. Foss wrote:
    >Brett Lang wrote:
    >
    >> I agree with beniamen (see below). It seems unreasonable to me that a diety
    >> would allow such spells to his followers. If one takes into account the
    >> requirements for a priest to be granted a QUEST spell, allowing a priest
    >> access to a REALM spell, when he has only minor access (and assunming a
    >> QUEST spell is an 8th level cleric spell, and a REALM spell is say 9th
    level
    >> clerical magic), seems rather unjustified (to me anyway).
    >
    >Man, this whole level-this, level-that thing makes this really confusing.
    I'm
    >going to try a couple of abbreviations here, OK? CL=Character level.
    SL=Spell
    >level.
    >
    >If a priest has minor access to a sphere s/he can cast spells up to 3rd SL
    >right? Priests gain 4th SL spells at 7th CL, so a priest with minor
    access to a
    >sphere should be able to cast realm spells that are listed as having a CL
    of 6th
    >or less.
    >
    >In the example you gave above, the priest with minor access to the
    >Enchantment/Charm sphere could not cast the Quest realm spell as it is
    listed as
    >requiring a CL of 9th.
    >
    Well, actually, I would say that the Realm Spells are spells granted by the
    land and by the bloodline. So, in my campain, you can cast it, not only
    because you're a priest, but also because you hold a bloodline. And that
    bloodline makes you to cast spells that in other worlds would seem like if
    they were 10th level, or so... =P

    Well, please excuse my writing, but actually I'm from a Spanish's speaking
    country...

    Regards....
    Trankel Al Ker
    Lord of the Brotherhood of the Black Tulipan

  10. #10
    breye@earthlink.net
    Guest

    Priest Realm Spells and minor a

    darkstar wrote:

    > 1. Should a priest who has minor access to a sphere (eg Haelyn &
    > Nercomatic) be allowed to cast realm spells in that Sphere (eg Legion of
    > dead). Another example is priests of Avani with minor access to creation and
    > the maintain armies realm spell.

    I was initailly thinking that Minor access was not enough to allow the casting
    of a realm spell,but I do like the option below about not disallowing the realm
    spells, just limiting which ones...

    > Also if you think that minor access to a sphere allows the realm spells
    > to be cast then should only the lower level realm spell be avalible.
    > This would mean that Maintain Armies which requires a level 2 caster can
    > be cast by priests of Avani but Legion of Dead which requires a level 5
    > caster can not be cast by priests of Haelyn?
    >
    > So what does everyone think?

    So yes, I think that minor access should allow the casting of realm spells
    which require anything above a 5th level caster (the level which you can cast 3
    level spells...)

    Bryan

    - --
    Don't shoot my Sunday joyride down.
    - -Wesley Willis

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. [BIRTHRIGHT] Realm spells as Epic Spells
    By geeman in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-10-2003, 11:29 PM
  2. priest spells
    By sivar in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-22-2001, 01:10 PM
  3. RE: Priest Realm Spells and minor a
    By Simon Graindorge in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-29-1998, 03:04 PM
  4. Priest Realm Spells and minor acces
    By darkstar in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-29-1998, 01:48 PM
  5. Priest Quest/Realm Spells
    By Sepsis in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-26-1996, 10:42 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.