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  1. #11
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:02 PM 6/23/2004 +0200, anacreon wrote:



    > CR equals Character Level??? You must have misunderstood the book. LA+HD

    > = Character Level, which is more often than not twice the CR...



    Excuse me, I meant ECL not CR.



    SS assumes that ECL can be broken up into individual character levels and

    portrayed that way. In practise, that makes for a sometimes haphazard

    class progression that does not function very well in portraying

    awnsheghlien or ersheghlien in my experience.



    Gary

  2. #12
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 12:04 PM 6/23/2004 +0200, irdeggman wrote:



    > QUOTE (anacreon @ Jun 23 2004, 12:54 AM) Oh, and Geeman, does BoR mean

    > "Book of Regency"? If so, I must have missed this reference can you tell

    > me where in the book it appears?

    >-----------------------------

    >

    > BoR (Book of Regency) starting on pg 24 under "Becoming an

    > Awnshegh" there are two paths described; "The Short Road" (i.e.,

    > bloodtheft) and "The Path of Evil" (i.e., the gradual transformation).



    Interesting. The second half of anacreon`s post that had the above

    question in it didn`t appear in the post that got sent to birthright-l. In

    fact, only the first two sentences were in that post and were in the same

    "paragraph." Something to do with stripping out the HTML tags, perhaps?



    Gary

  3. #13
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by geeman@Jun 23 2004, 05:50 AM
    At 05:39 PM 6/22/2004 +0200, irdeggman wrote:



    >As far as how many physicals transformations equal a LA - I`d use the

    >guidelines in Savage Species for comparisons. It lists the appropriate LA

    >for certain types of physical abilities (and other things like SR and

    >DR). The LA all depends on the nature of the transformation (and what is

    >gained by it), it is not just a simple number of transformations.



    I`ve got a whole list of transformations in the character class, and though

    nothing is ever really perfectly balanced in D20 they are generally

    described in a regular manner that is (if I say so myself) pretty well

    balanced as a system against the effects of character class and the BP

    system. In any case, let`s assume that`s true for the purpose of

    developing a template, shall we?



    I was thinking it should just have transformation effects and

    disadvantages. That`s it. Probably four transformations and two

    disadvantages, but maybe six and three.



    Gary
    Gary,
    I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that the number of transformations isn't what affects the LA but the relative power of the transformations. That is some are more powerful than others.

    IIRC your system has a weighted BP cost depending on the relative power of the transformation. Using that as the assumption for your system what it comes down to is finding the BP cost associated with a LA and having a LA for BP of that cost. That is assuming I understand your system.
    Duane Eggert

  4. #14
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 03:58 PM 6/23/2004 +0200, irdeggman wrote:



    >Gary, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that the

    >number of transformations isn`t what affects the LA but the relative power

    >of the transformations. That is some are more powerful than others.



    I gotcha. I`m saying let`s go ahead and assume that and go on to the next

    step. The next step is twofold:



    1. Several dozens of the proposed "transformations" are written up and

    posted in the aforementioned threads. Those transformations are all

    (arguably) balanced against one another and with BP, but whether they are

    or not let`s assume that they are balanced against one another for the

    purpose of devising a template. I`m thinking that 4 transformations and 2

    disadvantages was how I`d estimated that +1 LA to be worth in that system,

    but maybe 6/3 would work as well. The system is still a judgement call,

    after all, so I`m asking where one might judge that +1 LA to be worth

    according to the aforementioned transformation effects.



    2. Are there other things that should be in an awnshegh template? Should

    it have a HD or other features of character class? Is there anything other

    than transformations and disadvantages that seems like it should be

    portrayed in a template that represents the sudden and dramatic creation of

    an awnshegh by bloodtheft?



    >IIRC your system has a weighted BP cost depending on the relative power of

    >the transformation. Using that as the assumption for your system what it

    >comes down to is finding the BP cost associated with a LA and having a LA

    >for BP of that cost. That is assuming I understand your system.



    I`m not sure what you mean by weighted BP cost. There isn`t an increased

    point cost or anything in the BP system for blood abilities or

    transformation in the associated awnshegh class. The awnshegh class gets a

    BP every level which can be used to increase an existing blood ability or

    traded for a transformation (which are also granted on their own every

    other level) and both transformations and blood abilities have described

    "paths" upon which they can (but need not necessarily) be spent, but there

    is no scaling of the points (if that`s what you mean by weighted.) 1BP and

    one transformation almost always get you an effect. The only

    transformation that costs more than 1BP (or one transformation) is

    increased size, which takes both the BP and the transformation slot for

    that awnshegh level. Other than that the association is always 1:1.



    In any case, when it comes to associating a LA with BP in the past I`ve

    estimated 3BP = 1 character level, but that is again something of a

    judgement call.



    Gary

  5. #15
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    Edit: Ah, nevermind. I misread.
    <span style='color:darkgray'>&quot;I like to be passionate and sincere, but I also like to have fun and act like a dork... Geeks unite.&quot;
    &#160;</span>&#160;<span style='color:brightgray'>&#160;&#160;—Kurt Cobain</span>

  6. #16
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    While balance might be an issue for everybody, I personally find the benefits from 2 minor, 2 major and 1 great transformation to far outweigh the penalty of having to buy one Awnshegh level. Especially as this level coutns for a lot of class abilities it does not pose much penalty.

    I personally prefer Gary&#39;s suggestion, but it requires some reworking as it was based on his BP system.

  7. #17
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Don E@Jun 25 2004, 07:40 AM
    While balance might be an issue for everybody, I personally find the benefits from 2 minor, 2 major and 1 great transformation to far outweigh the penalty of having to buy one Awnshegh level. Especially as this level coutns for a lot of class abilities it does not pose much penalty.

    I personally prefer Gary&#39;s suggestion, but it requires some reworking as it was based on his BP system.
    Aha - I found the problem. I had posted an earlier version. The one used for fiftyone&#39;s spider actually had more info, an addition scion class level for true bloodline strength and the LA for awnshegh class were bumped up by one (+1/+2/+3).

    Try this one instead.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Duane Eggert

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