View Poll Results: Do both bards and magicians cast lesser magic?

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  • Yes, they both cast lesser magic

    5 33.33%
  • No, only magicians do bards cast something else

    5 33.33%
  • Something else (specify)

    4 26.67%
  • Abstain

    1 6.67%
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  1. #11
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Here's something I put together using the SRD. I took the wizards/sorcerers spell list and reduced it to the spells that a magician would have if following the 2nd ed rules (i.e., up to 2nd level spells of all schools and only Ill and Div of higher ones. I kept in the spells listed as Universal since it wasn't an original school at the time. I did highlight the higher level Universal spells that 'don't seem to fit' BR).

    If you look at the list it becomes pretty obvious how the magician was 'broke' as far as spells available. If he gains 2 spells per level + 1 from either Ill or Div then once he gains 9th level spells he pretty much knows all of the available ones right off the top and his bonus spell casting per day is extremely limited.
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    Duane Eggert

  2. #12
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    Originally posted by irdeggman@Jun 22 2004, 05:32 PM
    If you look at the list it becomes pretty obvious how the magician was 'broke' as far as spells available. If he gains 2 spells per level + 1 from either Ill or Div then once he gains 9th level spells he pretty much knows all of the available ones right off the top and his bonus spell casting per day is extremely limited.
    Hm... Well, in light of that, maybe I should've voted option nr. 3... :unsure:
    <span style='color:darkgray'>&quot;I like to be passionate and sincere, but I also like to have fun and act like a dork... Geeks unite.&quot;
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  3. #13
    I don&#39;t see how having access to 3 9th-level spells is any more "broken" than having access to 4, as is the case in the current BRCS spelllist. It is still more than the magician had access to in the original edition (2 by my count in the 2e PHB). It even makes sense: powerful magic is rare because most of it is "True Magic" to which few magicians have access. And there&#39;s nothing that prohibits magicians from using those 9th-level spell slots for other purposes, such as for meta-magicked lower level spells.

    To clarify my vote (since I&#39;m not sure whether Rasp&#39;s comment was to me or not, I just want to be safe). I did indeed want to vote for option 3. Option two says that bards do not use lesser magic. Option 1, which says both magicians and bards use lesser magic is more in line with my thought, but it doesn&#39;t go far enough. I think that bards use lesser magic and spellsong, which seems to be in line with what Raesene, Osprey, and Azulthar both are saying.

  4. #14
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    It seems I forgot to "cast my vote" regarding THAT issue...

    I think that the magician should not get two spells plus extra ones; since he already has so little access to spells, does it not seem only logical to minimise the number of spells he gets anyway?

    Bearcat, my objection lies on the fact that the second choice seems to say that bards use something else, while magicians do use lesser magic. While your concept is close to the third option, the latter imposes the idea that both use something that is not lesser magic&#33; Your concept seems to indicate that you simply do not think that bards do not use lesser magic, but they also use the spellsong. If I am mistaken, I will drop the issue right here and now.

  5. #15
    Let me try and dissect this, so I&#39;m sure of what you&#39;re saying:


    my objection lies on the fact that the second choice seems to say that bards use something else, while magicians do use lesser magic.
    True. This is why I didn&#39;t vote for it: Bard&#39;s use Lesser Magic and something else (Spellsong).


    While your concept is close to the third option, the latter imposes the idea that both use something that is not lesser magic&#33;
    I&#39;m going to assume the "latter" points to the third option and not my concept. In that case I have to disagree: the third option indicates the voters desire to say "I don&#39;t like either of the other two options". The request to specify allows the voter to explain why neither option is satisfactory. This is what I did.


    Your concept seems to indicate that you simply do not think that bards do not use lesser magic, but they also use the spellsong.
    Once I got my head around the double negative, yes that is a pretty good summary of my position. That is why I also voted for option three: my opinion lies outside of the scope of both options because it combines elements of both options:

    Bards and Magicians both use Lesser magic (OPTION 1), and Bards use something else (OPTION 2).

  6. #16
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    OK. Sorry for getting it wrong, even in part...

  7. #17
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Results of the poll are:

    Yes, they both cast lesser magic [ 5 ] [33.33%]
    No, only magicians do bards cast something else [ 5 ] [33.33%]
    Something else (specify) [ 4 ] [26.67%]
    Abstain [ 1 ] [6.67%]


    It looks on the surface to be inconclusive. But reading the comments and extrapolation it appears tome that a combination of #2 (only magicians cast lesser magic - bards cast somethingelse) and #3 Something else would appear to be the closest to a consensus. And even then is would not a true clear majority (twice as many in favor as the next closest) {unless all of the votes for #3 were thrown into the mix, but I didn&#39;t get that fell only some}. But it would still appear to be the closest.

    What that tells me is that the magicain and bard classes really shouldn&#39;t be tied together spell wise. Both should be independent spell lists and while there may be some overlapping spells they don&#39;t need to be completly overlapping.

    Hence, keep the bard the same as the PHB one and come up with a &#39;new&#39; magician class that doesn&#39;t have its spells be the same ones as the bards, although some will be.

    So the magician class needs some more work - more than can be done before I take my break, so that will be an open (i.e., unsantioned) part of Chap 1 when I take my sabbatical.

    I&#39;m closing this poll - since I don&#39;t really see any tendency for a &#39;clear&#39; decision and it wil justdrag on infinitum otherwise.
    Duane Eggert

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