Bard, magicians and magic

[irdeggman]

The discussion over magicians seems to be revolving around this issue so it looks like time for another poll.

Where does the line for lesser/greater magic fall? Are both bards and magicians lesser magic users? Are bards something else? If so, then what?

If you have other options/ideas/opinions please specify them in some game-mechanics format.

Also if you null your vote then you can see the results but you won't be able to vote on this poll in the future.

[RaspK_FOG]

I generally believe that bards are not exactly lesser arcane spellcaster; in fact, the concept of lesser magicks is mostly a basis that sounds at fault with the bard, since he does revolve so much around divination as much as around enchantment, a bit of the arcane arts that he definitely has good control over, followed by illusions, the only real part of lesser arcane magic he grasps.

[soudhadies]

I voted for "Something Else" I think that bards are casters of lesser magic and Sidhe Spellsongs. In 2e this was represented by giving bards access to illusion and divination spells (which comprised Lesser magic) and enchantment/charm spells (which comprised Sidhe Spellsong).

In the new conversion Spellsong could be assumed to comprise those spells that are on the bard spelllist but not on the wizard's spell list as well as those wiz/sorc enchantment spells(such as the healing spells) and sonic spells.

[RaspK_FOG]

Sorry for being annoying, but I think you meant to vote for choice No.2, since this is the one that represents that ONLY BARDS syphon different powers and not lesser arcane magic; what you voted for is that BOTH use something else...

Irdeggman, can we do something about this? I mean, it is not the first time someone made a simple mistake... Not allowing for such corrections to be made can only make things more annoying! At least count one vote off from the 3rd choice and put it on the 2nd one. Thank you.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Jun 21 2004, 06:20 PM
Sorry for being annoying, but I think you meant to vote for choice No.2, since this is the one that represents that ONLY BARDS syphon different powers and not lesser arcane magic; what you voted for is that BOTH use something else...

Irdeggman, can we do something about this? I mean, it is not the first time someone made a simple mistake... Not allowing for such corrections to be made can only make things more annoying! At least count one vote off from the 3rd choice and put it on the 2nd one. Thank you.

Sorry your screwed RaspK. :P

No just kidding. I should be able to handle that unless it gets way out of hand. If it gets real close then everything needs to be looked at again anyway. What I normally look for is a large vote in favor of something which indicates a large acceptance/like of some way to handle things.

[soudhadies]

Sorry for being annoying, but I think you meant to vote for choice No.2 ...

Was that in reference to my vote/post?

[Raesene Andu]

I think the easiest way to handle bards is to simple say that they can cast lesser magic (not as good as a magician of course) and use the elven method of Spellsong to cast some enchantment spells. Then include a new list of spells available for Cerilian Bards that replaces the one in the PHB.

[Osprey]

I voted for "something else" as well, as my vote seems to include options 1 and 2 together (Bards can cast Lesser Magic and some other spells well-suited to the art of spellsong; magicians are the specialists in lesser magic, but should also have some specialty spells; see below).

I think the 3.0/3.5 Bards' spell list is pretty awesome, and personally would prefer to leave it unmolested and import it directly into Birthright. I think Magicians represent the wizardly approach to Lesser Magic, and are the ones who need special attention in developing a spell list.

What would be especially helpful IMO is if a larger list of divination and illusion spells were created for magicians, and made so that these are EXCLUSIVE Magician spells that wizards and sorcerers can't access because they're specifically well-suited to the subtleties of the magician's path. Sorry i don't have a whole list ready for you, I'm still in the brainstorming stages, but would love to collaborate here on the boards for ideas for specialized magician spells that will lend unique flavor and utility to the magician class.

Osprey

[Azulthar]

I voted "something else". I think bards would mostly use elven spellsong, with some support of lesser magic. This would explain why their spellcasting is so different from that of a magician (no preparation, charisma-based, bardic music, etc.).

- Azulthar

[the Falcon]

Originally posted by Osprey@Jun 22 2004, 05:36 AM
I think the 3.0/3.5 Bards' spell list is pretty awesome, and personally would prefer to leave it unmolested and import it directly into Birthright.

Hear, hear! I totally agree. So I vote for option 2.