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  1. #1
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    Conquering provinces

    I have a question regarding what happens when a province is invested by a
    regent of a different race than its inhabitants. For example, say Cariele
    conquers and invests a province of Tuarhievel. What happens to the elven
    inhabitants? Do they stay in the province, and if they do, what is their
    reaction? Do they rebel? That can be countered by a simple Agitate action.
    Yet it does not seem appropriate that elves stay content under a human's
    rule. How is this handled?

    ************
    Aleksei Andrievski
    aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
    Visit the Archmage's Tower at
    http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

  2. #2
    Tremiere
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    This is where DM intervention rules in. Elves would ALWAYS rebel against a
    human ruler. They will fight to the last of them, and if there is no hope,
    they MAY flee to another elven realm. However, from there, they'll push for
    war at all costs.

  3. #3
    Jason Newquist
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Tremiere wrote:

    > This is where DM intervention rules in. Elves would ALWAYS rebel against a
    > human ruler.

    Always? I can think of a few *unlikely* cases where alliances might
    occur.

    > They will fight to the last of them, and if there is no hope, they MAY
    > flee to another elven realm.

    You can't have it both ways. Either they fight to the last or they
    consider flight when hopes are dashed.

    > However, from there, they'll push for war at all costs.

    All costs? If that's the case, why are the Elven kingdoms not warring
    with the humans even now? (Now = official setting starting point.)

    Sorry of this message sounds harsh, but let's be careful about making
    statements containing absolutes.

    - -j

    ---------------
    Jason Newquist The acid test is whether you take any pleasure in
    jason@nocturne.org responding to the question 'What do you do?'
    Nocturne Research - Metropolitan (1990)

  4. #4
    Phil Burge
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    The elves are bot currently at open hositilities with humans (except for
    Rhoube) as they lack the numbers. Therefore they practice instead the
    defence of their current borders from furthur human encroachment until
    the day where they are able to drive humans from the land.

    Phil.

  5. #5
    James Ray
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    That sounds a little excessive to me. It would be more dependant upon
    wether the DM wants Humans to rule over members of these other races.
    There are countries across Cerialia where demi-humans and humans live
    together, under one race's or another's rule. If a DM doesnt want the
    situation to exist, then the Investiture Action should simply be said to
    have failed. If you want to get all homocidal, you can have the other race
    raise levees until all the provinces are reduced to Ratings of (0), but if
    the human character has already conquered the place, what would be the
    point? I dont see anything that is asccomplished by such lemming-like
    behavior, unless you want to help the character depopulate the region
    without actually having to commit an evil act to do it. What if the human
    had been goaded into war, and whips the Elves so badly that they trade the
    province for peace? What if the human finds a local to make a vassal of?
    There are a lot of different ways to role-play the situation, and keep the
    game going without introducing "total war" and "ethnic cleansing". Nothing
    should ever be an "all or nothing" proposition, and that ought to be the
    most important thing about political situations in a campaign like
    Birthright.

    James
    - ----------
    > From: Trizt
    > To: Aleksei Andrievski
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Conquering provinces
    > Date: Monday, April 20, 1998 4:53 PM
    >
    >
    > Elves and Dwarves would rather destroy the land and leave than live under
    the
    > rule of human or humanoids. But before leaving they would try to get rid
    of
    > the new leader, an elven wizard may offer his life to assasinate the new
    > ruler, dwarven warriors would try on an open assult against the new ruler
    and
    > his/her bodyguards.
    > No Agitation or a nother action will end a hostility between races, when
    it
    > comes to a conflict between the old and the young races, exspecially when
    a
    > younger race have the overhand over an older one. The province could be
    > counted to be in rebelion until the old race is less than 10% of the
    > population (eiather due new inhabittants has moved in the province or
    that the
    > old once has moved out). The number of half-elves will increase in a
    conquered
    > elven realm, this can give an dangerous future for the area, as there is
    a
    > great risk that thise half-elves will be extremely unfriendly against
    humans
    > and may become as great elven heros as Manslayer, which may make wartime
    > Bosnia look like a peaceful place.
    >
    > When it comes to the conquest in the other direction, then it will be
    more
    > peaceful, as the younger races has easier to adapt than the older.
    >
    >
    > //Trizt of Ward^RITE
    >
    >
    ------------------
    - --
    > E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL:
    http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
    > Nick : Trizt IRC: irc.kuai.se:5278 Channel:
    #Opers
    > MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
    >
    ------------------
    - --
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  6. #6
    Tremiere
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    In a message dated 98-04-22 12:35:43 EDT, you write:

    >

    This is true. There are tons of ways to role-play the situation. However,
    elves once populated the entire region. Now, they've been pushed back to the
    point of hiding away in their forests killing most humans who enter.
    Tuarhievel is less strict, but the Sielwode still practices Ghealle Sidhe
    within their borders. Not as harshly as it was intended, but humans find
    themselves either dead, or if they're lucky, quickly evicted from Sielwode.
    If a human were somehow able to stomp them, the elves would not remain to be
    ruled over. This is because all the elves would be able to fight the
    invaders. True, elves prize elven life highly (because it is an immortal
    life) and will not sacrifice lives for revenge purposes. However, it is
    highly unlikely that they could be ruled by an aggresive human power. I would
    assume that only if the elven regent were to divest a piece or all of his
    domain into the human regent, could he suceed in ruling the populace. And
    even this, is bound to start a civil war amongst the elves of that forest
    (like Tuarhievel).

  7. #7
    Trizt
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    On 22-Apr-98, James Ray (jlray@rr1.net) wrote about Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] -
    Conquering provinces:
    - ->That sounds a little excessive to me. It would be more dependant upon
    - ->wether the DM wants Humans to rule over members of these other races.
    It's always upto the DM how to handle things.

    - ->I dont see anything that is asccomplished by such lemming-like
    - ->behavior, unless you want to help the character depopulate the region
    - ->without actually having to commit an evil act to do it.
    It could be considered an evil act to continue to occupy the region, atleast
    the elves will think the humans are evil in this case, while the humans will
    not see them as evil.

    - ->What if the human
    - ->had been goaded into war, and whips the Elves so badly that they trade the
    - ->province for peace?
    In that case I think _ALL_ the elves would leave the region, most of them
    peacefully, but it wouldn't bee unlikely that there would be elven resistance
    who would fight the humans.

    - ->There are a lot of different ways to role-play the situation, and keep the
    - ->game going without introducing "total war" and "ethnic cleansing". Nothing
    - ->should ever be an "all or nothing" proposition, and that ought to be the
    - ->most important thing about political situations in a campaign like
    - ->Birthright.
    I have to agree that everything shouldn't be "all or nothing", but if there
    are always an "good" solution, then you have endup with a version of BR which
    resambbles of FR.



    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    --------------------
    E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
    Nick : Trizt IRC: irc.kuai.se:5278 Channel: #Opers
    MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
    --------------------

  8. #8
    Neil Barnes
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, James Ray wrote:
    > If you want to get all homocidal, you can have the other race
    > raise levees until all the provinces are reduced to Ratings of (0), but if
    > the human character has already conquered the place, what would be the
    > point? I dont see anything that is asccomplished by such lemming-like
    > behavior, unless you want to help the character depopulate the region
    > without actually having to commit an evil act to do it.

    I'm playing Mesire in a campaign at the moment, and following a failed
    invasion by the Black Spear Tribe Gnolls, I decided to push the border
    north a bit. After routing the few forces they had left in their
    provinces, I just pillaged the provinces into the ground, and am now
    ruling them up as human held-territory.

    Not the nicest of plans, but pretty effective.

    neil

  9. #9
    Eric Dunn
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    >I'm playing Mesire in a campaign at the moment, and following a failed
    >invasion by the Black Spear Tribe Gnolls, I decided to push the border
    >north a bit. After routing the few forces they had left in their
    >provinces, I just pillaged the provinces into the ground, and am now
    >ruling them up as human held-territory.
    >
    >Not the nicest of plans, but pretty effective.
    >
    >neil
    >


    Wow! how'd you take out that level 19 undead mage?

    E

    Eric Dunn
    eric@cyberserv.com
    ICQ#4332602

  10. #10
    Neil Barnes
    Guest

    Conquering provinces

    On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Eric Dunn wrote:
    > Wow! how'd you take out that level 19 undead mage?

    He's still there. I've just being massacring the Gnolls while he's been
    otherwise engaged (since he's only able to enter Cerilia one month in
    three). My plans for taking him out will need a little time before they
    come to fruition....

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