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Thread: Here`s a twist

  1. #1
    George Koch
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    Hi all...
    Had a very interesting twist in our campaign this weekend, and I'd like to hear your
    thoughts on it..
    I normally DM the campaign.. but i take occasional breaks and let one of the players DM
    (they're all experienced DM's).. Normally the adventures are small sidetracks without a
    lot of impact to the overall campaign but this time was different.. very different!
    Our campaign is centered around Cariele.. The player that DM'd plays a character that was
    a guild master in Cariele and had recently (with everyone's help) pushed out the
    competition and was in the process of taking over the country... This weekend he
    basically sacrificed his country with a divine intervention adventure... I'll spare you
    the details.. but in short, one of the OLD gods (goddess actually) destroyed everything
    within the borders of Cariele and reverted it all back to Sylvan forest, tasking all of
    us (most are elves) to protect it and to teach the humans how to live without destroying
    the forest... She chose a druid (Cleric of the Oaken Grove)as a sort of Messiah.. and
    she introduced wild elves into the land....

    At first I was a bit shocked that he would make just a HUGE change in the campaign.. but
    frankly I LIKE the twist...
    There are EXTREME Religious, Political, Economic, and Environmental implications..

    Number one in my book is the fact that elves don't worship gods... at least not in many
    many years... We're likely to convince our own people.. but the Prince (NPC) and the
    elves of Turnievel (sp?) aren't likely to take to this very well.. Can anyone sayholy
    war? And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

    I'm going to take this situation and run with it... I'd like to hear your comments and
    suggestions for what you would do if faced with this problem... I know what most DM's
    would say.. "I wouldn't have allowed it in the first place!" You'd have to know our
    gaming group.. we're all older gamers that have been together a lot of years... and I see
    this as a challenge... so beyond that... What would you do?

  2. #2
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    >
    > I'm going to take this situation and run with it... I'd like to hear your
    comments and
    > suggestions for what you would do if faced with this problem... I know
    what most DM's
    > would say.. "I wouldn't have allowed it in the first place!" You'd have
    to know our
    > gaming group.. we're all older gamers that have been together a lot of
    years... and I see
    > this as a challenge... so beyond that... What would you do?
    >
    I'd have my character become a stilite (sp.) (thouse are thouse dudes that
    climb way up atop old pillars, one step beyond Monks in hosehair shirts;
    they live up there. Some stayed up ontop pillars for decades; passers buy
    would give them food, which had to be raised up to 'em with buckets n
    stuff.) Not so much because of the "Divine Intervention" mind you. But
    because of the ruin of tens of thousands of people's lives (where did they
    go? were the original inhabitants all slaughtered mercelessly by this
    diety? were they transformed into these new Wild Elves? If so, did they
    retain their personalities, or were they brainwashed? Were they consulted
    in any way? what do the gods they formerly worshiped think of the
    elimination of a hundred thousand (or so) of their followers by some old,
    defunct Diety?)
    Anyhow, it seems all your characters, rather than glorying in this event,
    should do penance for participating in a crime against sentient creation.
    Thus the collumn. Have fun. 8-)
    (I supose now that I've raised the uncomfortable question, you & your DM
    can come up with a *very* convienient retroactive sollution. . . .yah; the
    original inhabitants were all "transfered" to a paradice. That's the
    ticket.)

  3. #3
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, George Koch wrote:

    > At first I was a bit shocked that he would make just a HUGE change in the campaign.. but
    > frankly I LIKE the twist...
    > There are EXTREME Religious, Political, Economic, and Environmental implications..

    I would say so. For instance, you've just cut off the cheif route across
    the mountains: BIG trade and political implications (for example, Dhoesone
    begins becoming culturally more like the Rjuric). Any guilder who had a
    trade route to or through there will likely be quite angry. And depending
    on current attitudes, this could be seen as a crisis or an opportunity for
    Dhoesone. On the one hand, it could cut off the flow of potentially
    culturally-stifling influence from Anuire, allowing the unique aspects of
    the Dhoesonean culture to fluorish. On the other hand, there's probably a
    number of fairly important goods that are regularly brought into Dhoesone
    rather than manufactured locally, so things like iron goods and leather
    might become increasing scarce. I would expect a mad rush to establish
    influence in Dhoesone's cheif port city.

    On the other hand, I suspect there's currently a large number of
    Carieleans who are currently out of work. Cariele's economy was based
    almost entirely upon trade, and so must switch over to a new system. Not
    only will this cause a certain amount of chaos (lives and fortunes being
    made and lost) but will also leave the area vulnerable to attack from the
    monsters in the Five Peaks, but also to Ol' Hornhead's machinations. It
    would be an excellent time for any orog tribes to make their presence
    known.

    Not to mention the theological implications: "What do you mean, one of the
    OLD goddesses did this? They're all DEAD, aren't they?" Suddenly one of
    the fundamental bases upon which Cerilian civilization is based comes
    fundamentally into question. (Does it mean a whole slew of new churches
    will arise, based on reworshiping the old gods?)

    Just some thought. Hope they're useful, or at least interesting.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  4. #4
    Morgramen & the Lady Fae
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    George Koch wrote:

    > . but in short, one of the OLD gods (goddess actually) destroyed
    > everything
    > within the borders of Cariele and reverted it all back to Sylvan
    > forest, tasking all of
    > us (most are elves) to protect it and to teach the humans how to live
    > without destroying
    > the forest... She chose a druid (Cleric of the Oaken Grove)as a sort
    > of Messiah.. and
    > she introduced wild elves into the land....
    >
    > There are EXTREME Religious, Political, Economic, and Environmental
    > implications..

    > I'm going to take this situation and run with it... I'd like to hear
    > your comments and
    > suggestions for what you would do if faced with this problem... I know
    > what most DM's
    > would say.. "I wouldn't have allowed it in the first place!" You'd
    > have to know our
    > gaming group.. we're all older gamers that have been together a lot of
    > years... and I see
    > this as a challenge... so beyond that... What would you do?
    >

    I agree with you. I would run with the idea as well. Not only
    will this "holy war" make your incarnation of Cerilia very different
    from the "text book" version, but because it was one of your players
    ideas, they will most likely be very eager to explore the campaign
    possibilities which such a major event is sure to create. And as I'm
    sure you're all aware, excited players = fun players=happy Dm!
    I must say however, that you may wish to temper this "holy war" a
    little bit. Such a major upheaval in the political & religious
    structure of the world is sure to raise just about every eyebrow in the
    entire world of Cerilia. Sooner or later, the entire realm will have
    heard about it, and may want to stifle such a "new" religious movement.
    Can anyone say "Through him to the lions?"
    The over all effect of this change is limited only by the amount of
    work which you (or the other DMs) are willing to put into it.

    >
    >

  5. #5
    Kyle Foster
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    Well, we all know that the old gods are dead, but there seem to be a
    goodly number of priest of azari running around and still getting
    spells, and there are hints that he is the cold rider so maybe its
    possible, in some versions of Cerilla that one or more of the old gods
    survived in some form.

    I'd also think that the Mhor would be rather peeved that his vassal
    just got wiped off the planet and might do something unfriendly to the
    poeple he held responsiable for it.

    Kyle
    - --
    "What's so amazing about really deep thoughts?" - Tori Amos, "Silent
    All These Years"

  6. #6
    DustyAbom2
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    the "fop's" name is Entier Gladanil

  7. #7
    George Koch
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    > Well, we all know that the old gods are dead, but there seem to be a
    > goodly number of priest of azari running around and still getting
    > spells, and there are hints that he is the cold rider so maybe its
    > possible, in some versions of Cerilla that one or more of the old gods
    > survived in some form.
    Excellent point... If one of the old gods has shown her hand... It could prompt the
    resurgence of at least one other old god to mantain balance..

    > I'd also think that the Mhor would be rather peeved that his vassal
    > just got wiped off the planet and might do something unfriendly to the
    > poeple he held responsiable for it.

    The Mhor's influence was fading in our campaign. The regent of Cariele (brain-lock,
    can't think of the fop's name) was a puppet of the guild masters primarily Mhellie
    Birone. Mhellie backed an attempt by the Northern Reform Church to squeeze out the other
    churches. The fop was forced by Mhellie to support it as well. The PC's sided with the
    Oaken Grove and broke the attempt, then pressed on to destroy Mhellie Birone's holdings.
    The fop fled to Dhosone.. The Mhor is very peeved, but the PC's have formed a large
    alliance and there is little he can do about it. Since most of the PC's are elven and
    half-elven and there is a strong anti-human sentiment in the area. I was thinking of
    having the Mhor strike alliances with other human domains. Between a human alliance and
    the non-god worshipping elves of Turnievel, I should be able to keep everyone busy...
    what do ya think?
    Thanks for the input... I can use the help!!!! QSilver...

  8. #8
    George Koch
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    Morgramen & the Lady Fae said:

    > I agree with you. I would run with the idea as well. Not only
    > will this "holy war" make your incarnation of Cerilia very different
    > from the "text book" version, but because it was one of your players
    > ideas, they will most likely be very eager to explore the campaign
    > possibilities which such a major event is sure to create. And as I'm
    > sure you're all aware, excited players = fun players=happy Dm!
    My thoughts exactly! Thanks...

    > I must say however, that you may wish to temper this "holy war" a
    > little bit. Such a major upheaval in the political & religious
    > structure of the world is sure to raise just about every eyebrow in the
    > entire world of Cerilia. Sooner or later, the entire realm will have
    > heard about it, and may want to stifle such a "new" religious movement.
    > Can anyone say "Through him to the lions?"
    > The over all effect of this change is limited only by the amount of
    > work which you (or the other DMs) are willing to put into it.

    I don't expect the PC's to start a holy war.. but rather (like you said above) NPC
    countries that want to stifle the new religous movement. The primary adversary (in my
    eyes) would be the Prince of Turnievel. Up til now, the PC's has tried to strike a good
    alliance with him and many elven noble houses.. But I don't think the Prince will welcome
    an elven religion that threatens his power..

    Great thoughts.. Thanks! Keep 'em coming.. QSilver

  9. #9
    George Koch
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    >
    > Mark VanderMeulen said

    > I would say so. For instance, you've just cut off the cheif route across
    > the mountains: BIG trade and political implications (for example, Dhoesone
    > begins becoming culturally more like the Rjuric). Any guilder who had a
    > trade route to or through there will likely be quite angry. And depending
    > on current attitudes, this could be seen as a crisis or an opportunity for
    > Dhoesone. On the one hand, it could cut off the flow of potentially
    > culturally-stifling influence from Anuire, allowing the unique aspects of
    > the Dhoesonean culture to fluorish. On the other hand, there's probably a
    > number of fairly important goods that are regularly brought into Dhoesone
    > rather than manufactured locally, so things like iron goods and leather
    > might become increasing scarce. I would expect a mad rush to establish
    > influence in Dhoesone's cheif port city.
    Wow... Never thought of this.. Frankly I've been concentrating on the areas south of
    Cariele and not Dhosone and points north... Thanks I'll work that in...

    > On the other hand, I suspect there's currently a large number of
    > Carieleans who are currently out of work. Cariele's economy was based
    > almost entirely upon trade, and so must switch over to a new system.
    Well here's where the goddess threw in a wierd twist... There are no Carieleans.. We
    asked what happened to them and she responded that "They didn't die. It is as if they
    never existed". I was considering taking that as if she moved this area "back in time" so
    to speak. As a result, the area would be real wilderness with all the beasties that come
    with it.

    > Not only will this cause a certain amount of chaos (lives and fortunes being
    > made and lost) but will also leave the area vulnerable to attack from the
    > monsters in the Five Peaks, but also to Ol' Hornhead's machinations. It
    > would be an excellent time for any orog tribes to make their presence
    > known.

    THIS is a definite factor.. new wilderness.. and no border protection should draw the
    Five Peaks critters in like a magnet. And of course anything that causes the Elves
    problems will please the Gorgon..

    > Not to mention the theological implications: "What do you mean, one of the
    > OLD goddesses did this? They're all DEAD, aren't they?" Suddenly one of
    > the fundamental bases upon which Cerilian civilization is based comes
    > fundamentally into question. (Does it mean a whole slew of new churches
    > will arise, based on reworshiping the old gods?)

    Right! Not just churches to this one old god.. but praise to the other old gods in hopes
    that they will re-emerge.. Not to mention every unknown with a minor blood-ability
    announcing him/herself as a messiah of the old gods.

    > Just some thought. Hope they're useful, or at least interesting.
    Very! Thanks... This could be a kick!

  10. #10
    George Koch
    Guest

    Here`s a twist

    James Ruhland advised;

    > I'd have my character become a stilite (sp.) (thouse are thouse dudes that
    > climb way up atop old pillars, one step beyond Monks in hosehair shirts;
    > they live up there. Some stayed up ontop pillars for decades; passers buy
    > would give them food, which had to be raised up to 'em with buckets n
    > stuff.) Not so much because of the "Divine Intervention" mind you.
    Well I don't see the players being too anxious to climb up on pillars. (Although we have
    a Mage-Scholar that just wants to be left alone with his books, he might go for it! hehe)
    My character (I have a Bard-diplomat that is a NPC, but is my PC when someone else DM's)
    is the regent of Torien's watch and he was so influenced by this that he has decided to
    blend his domain into this new region and become the gateway to the new land. His bard
    college has taken on the mission of teaching the world how to become one with the land
    etc. etc.

    > because of the ruin of tens of thousands of people's lives (where did they
    > go? were the original inhabitants all slaughtered mercelessly by this
    > diety? were they transformed into these new Wild Elves?
    The goddess said they didn't die, they just never existed (gods can be sooo vague).. I
    like the transformed into wild elves idea.. Even if it isn't the case, religious orders
    may line up to "Convert these savages"....

    > If so, did they retain their personalities, or were they brainwashed? Were they consulted
    > in any way? what do the gods they formerly worshiped think of the
    > elimination of a hundred thousand (or so) of their followers by some old,
    > defunct Diety?)
    Very good question here! Have to think on this one.....

    > Anyhow, it seems all your characters, rather than glorying in this event,
    > should do penance for participating in a crime against sentient creation.
    > Thus the collumn. Have fun. 8-)
    Evil chuckle.......

    > (I supose now that I've raised the uncomfortable question, you & your DM
    > can come up with a *very* convienient retroactive sollution. . . .yah; the
    > original inhabitants were all "transfered" to a paradice. That's the
    > ticket.)
    Paradise or not... It may be hell on earth for those left behind! Thanks for the
    comments! QSilver

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