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  1. #11
    Kyle Foster
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    I think that useing the languge profs. as bonus profs. is a good idea.
    And some of the charts posted are a good start. Anyone who uses them
    should report back on how they worked out game balance wise.
    As for the S&P book I bought it at the urgering of power mad FR players
    and was thourghly dissappionted in what it could do if left unchecked.
    Just as an aside I am an avid Hero System player and have been since its
    inseption so a point based system is not my problem with The S&P book.
    It seemed unballanced to me, but I was also really burnt out on my game
    at the time and that might have colored my view so anyone else who has
    thoughts on it I'dd like to hear them and maybe I'll take a fresh look
    at the book.

    Kyle
    - --
    "I drank WHAT?"- Socrates

  2. #12
    Brian Stoner
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    The Skills & Powers proficiency system is based on the character's ability to learn
    and improve their proficiency as they increase in levels. For this reason, the
    basic stats start out low, and are modified by the relevent ability (or
    subability). Then, as the character increases in levels, he is able to apply the
    character points the DM grants him to the proficiendies and raise them.

    In general, Skills and Powers (and all the Players' Options books) has some nice
    ideas, even if they are unbalanced. A DM should always take care to watch the
    players and make rulings if using the PO books. The next issue of Dragon is
    supposed to have Skills and Powers stuff for Birthright and I look forward to
    reading it--even if I never use them.

    Brian

  3. #13
    Lolly Eggers
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    I think that the proficiency situation is an interesting problem.
    When I create a character I want to give him or her some personality, a
    background, and abilities to back that up. There just usualy aren't
    enough proficiency slots. It seems however that giving players a bunch of
    extra proficiency slot isn't the answer. Instead I suggest making
    background proficiencies (Those that have little effect on the game in
    areas other then role-playing) cheaper (ie. two for one sale on background
    proficienies in aisle three).
    Another way you might handle this problem is to make proficiency
    groups. The rules in the CFHB introduce weapon proficiency groups,
    perhaps a similar system could be fashioned for non-weapon proficiencies
    with groups like athletics (swimming, endurance, mountaineering) and
    wilderness (hunting, foraging, survival). Anyway it's something to think
    about. I invite anyone to respond to my ideas

  4. #14
    breye@earthlink.net
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    I really like the idea of Backround proficiency Groups, bought for cheaper that
    each one would be alone. These groups would be based on the type of cultural
    upbringing that the character had, and what type of environment the character
    was raised in. I also think that it would also be possible to add an
    additional proficiency for other high atributes (your strength is over 13, you
    get an extra strength based proficiency or some such...

    Lolly Eggers wrote:

    > I think that the proficiency situation is an interesting problem.
    > When I create a character I want to give him or her some personality, a
    > background, and abilities to back that up. There just usualy aren't
    > enough proficiency slots. It seems however that giving players a bunch of
    > extra proficiency slot isn't the answer. Instead I suggest making
    > background proficiencies (Those that have little effect on the game in
    > areas other then role-playing) cheaper (ie. two for one sale on background
    > proficienies in aisle three).
    > Another way you might handle this problem is to make proficiency
    > groups. The rules in the CFHB introduce weapon proficiency groups,
    > perhaps a similar system could be fashioned for non-weapon proficiencies
    > with groups like athletics (swimming, endurance, mountaineering) and
    > wilderness (hunting, foraging, survival). Anyway it's something to think
    > about. I invite anyone to respond to my ideas
    >
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > >

    - --
    Don't shoot my Sunday joyride down.
    - -Wesley Willis

  5. #15
    George Koch
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    > In general, Skills and Powers (and all the Player's Options books) has some nice
    > ideas, even if they are unbalanced. A DM should always take care to watch the
    > players and make rulings if using the PO books. The next issue of Dragon is
    > supposed to have Skills and Powers stuff for Birthright and I look forward to
    > reading it--even if I never use them.
    >
    > Brian

    I have always been amazed at the various reactions to Skills & Powers....
    When it first came out, there were a lot of comments about it being a system that could
    (and would) be exploited and abused by players to make ALL POWERFUL characters...
    I even fell for this line of thinking and avoided incorporating it into my game...
    However one of my players suggested giving it a try... and I did..
    We found it a good addition to our game.. we play Skills & Powers characters exclusively
    now... We had no incidence of abuse... Which says to me that no matter what system you
    use... no matter what rules you include/exclude... ultimately it's the quality and
    integrity of the people in your group that makes the difference...
    I consider myself lucky... and also look forward to the S&P kits for BirthRight!

  6. #16
    MANTA
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    > The way I reread this, is that if a character has a 16 Intelligence,
    he
    > or she is normally allowed to learn 5 additional languages, AND has 5
    > proficincy slots open to learn more languages, or weapon styles or
    non-weapon
    > proficiencies.

    The character CAN learn up to 5 languages and has 5 bonus proficiency stots
    which he can spend in languages or nonweapon proficiencies.


    >I've never seen this done in a game I've been in, nor have I
    > myself done it in a game I've run, but I didn't look at it closely
    enough. I
    > would like for y'all (yes, I'm in TEXAS :-) to reread that closely,
    stressing
    > the words/ phrases that stood out to me "...column ALSO indicates..."
    along
    > with "...EXTRA proficiency slots..." (that's in there twice) and
    "...CHARACTER
    > gains due to his Intelligence."
    >
    > I don't want this to be something that could ruin your fun in your
    > KirbyRanma


    Thats how I see it.
    MANTA




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  7. #17
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    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    > Another way you might handle this problem is to make proficiency
    >groups. The rules in the CFHB introduce weapon proficiency groups,
    >perhaps a similar system could be fashioned for non-weapon proficiencies
    >with groups like athletics (swimming, endurance, mountaineering) and
    >wilderness (hunting, foraging, survival). Anyway it's something to think
    >about. I invite anyone to respond to my ideas

    I like this idea. To my knowledge, nobody has thought of this before. Has
    anyone
    tried out a system like this, and how much success did you have?

    I also liked Simon's difficulty-level system. I think a mix of these two ideas
    could give us exactly what we want.

  8. #18
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    Lolly Eggers wrote:

    > Another way you might handle this problem is to make proficiency
    > groups. The rules in the CFHB introduce weapon proficiency groups,
    > perhaps a similar system could be fashioned for non-weapon proficiencies
    > with groups like athletics (swimming, endurance, mountaineering) and
    > wilderness (hunting, foraging, survival). Anyway it's something to think
    > about. I invite anyone to respond to my ideas

    This is a really good idea. I like it a lot. Here's a couple of ideas that it
    sparked regarding groups for non-weapon proficiencies:

    Racial Groups: Some races should have groups of proficiencies that they could
    have. Dwarves could have a group that included things like blacksmithing,
    mining, mountaineering and Read/Write-Dwarven, for instance. Elves could have
    dancing, etiquette, a musical instrument or singing and Read/Write Elven. This
    list of skills should be tweaked for whatever campaign world/subrace was
    involved, and I'm sure there are other proficiencies that should be included.

    Culture Groups: Humans and non-humans should have culture groups which would
    include things like Reading/Writing and Local History. Depending on the
    culture these groups could include things like swimming (for a seaside culture)
    Riding, horse (for a culture that emphasized horsemanship) etc.

    Professional Groups: There could be groups that would parallel the character
    kits. A smith group that has blacksmithing, weaponsmithing and armorer in it;
    a scholar group that has Reading/Writing, History, etc. in it. Character kits
    already get proficiencies at a bonus, but if a player wanted to have another
    option, this might be a way to go.

    What do you folks think?

    - -Gary

  9. #19
    Gabriel Eggers
    Guest

    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    - ----Original Message Follows----
    Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:12:49 -0800
    From: "Gary V. Foss"
    To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Proficiencies - the hidden (?) extras
    Reply-To: birthright@MPGN.COM

    Lolly Eggers wrote:

    > Another way you might handle this problem is to make
    proficiency
    > groups. The rules in the CFHB introduce weapon proficiency groups,
    > perhaps a similar system could be fashioned for non-weapon
    proficiencies
    > with groups like athletics (swimming, endurance, mountaineering) and
    > wilderness (hunting, foraging, survival). Anyway it's something to
    think
    > about. I invite anyone to respond to my ideas

    This is a really good idea. I like it a lot. Here's a couple of ideas
    that it
    sparked regarding groups for non-weapon proficiencies:

    Racial Groups: Some races should have groups of proficiencies that they
    could
    have. Dwarves could have a group that included things like
    blacksmithing,
    mining, mountaineering and Read/Write-Dwarven, for instance. Elves
    could have
    dancing, etiquette, a musical instrument or singing and Read/Write
    Elven. This
    list of skills should be tweaked for whatever campaign world/subrace was
    involved, and I'm sure there are other proficiencies that should be
    included.

    Culture Groups: Humans and non-humans should have culture groups which
    would
    include things like Reading/Writing and Local History. Depending on the
    culture these groups could include things like swimming (for a seaside
    culture)
    Riding, horse (for a culture that emphasized horsemanship) etc.

    Professional Groups: There could be groups that would parallel the
    character
    kits. A smith group that has blacksmithing, weaponsmithing and armorer
    in it;
    a scholar group that has Reading/Writing, History, etc. in it.
    Character kits
    already get proficiencies at a bonus, but if a player wanted to have
    another
    option, this might be a way to go.

    What do you folks think?

    - -Gary

    Great ideas Gary. This helps me alot. Maybe I'll write a system up for
    the list and submit it to a Darksun page. I also see campaign specific
    groups and faction ones for Planescape.

    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line


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  10. #20
    Senior Member
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    Proficiencies - the hidden (?)

    At 01:12 PM 3/28/98 -0800, you wrote:
    >Lolly Eggers wrote:
    >
    >> Another way you might handle this problem is to make proficiency
    >> groups. The rules in the CFHB introduce weapon proficiency groups,
    >> perhaps a similar system could be fashioned for non-weapon proficiencies
    >> with groups like athletics (swimming, endurance, mountaineering) and
    >> wilderness (hunting, foraging, survival). Anyway it's something to think
    >> about. I invite anyone to respond to my ideas
    >
    >This is a really good idea. I like it a lot. Here's a couple of ideas
    that it
    >sparked regarding groups for non-weapon proficiencies:
    >
    >Racial Groups: Some races should have groups of proficiencies that they could
    >have. Dwarves could have a group that included things like blacksmithing,
    >mining, mountaineering and Read/Write-Dwarven, for instance. Elves could
    have
    >dancing, etiquette, a musical instrument or singing and Read/Write Elven.
    This
    >list of skills should be tweaked for whatever campaign world/subrace was
    >involved, and I'm sure there are other proficiencies that should be included.
    >
    >Culture Groups: Humans and non-humans should have culture groups which would
    >include things like Reading/Writing and Local History. Depending on the
    >culture these groups could include things like swimming (for a seaside
    culture)
    >Riding, horse (for a culture that emphasized horsemanship) etc.
    >
    >Professional Groups: There could be groups that would parallel the character
    >kits. A smith group that has blacksmithing, weaponsmithing and armorer in
    it;
    >a scholar group that has Reading/Writing, History, etc. in it. Character
    kits
    >already get proficiencies at a bonus, but if a player wanted to have another
    >option, this might be a way to go.
    >
    >What do you folks think?

    For the professional skills, I think the secondary skills list from the
    player's handbook might work nicely. Perhaps two NP slots to acquire a
    secondary skill, with all the associated proficiencies?

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