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  1. #1
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    Hi everyone,

    We like to play up the formalities of the court in RP, but we are making it up on the fly. We don't mind doing that, but I was wondering if anyone had a quick and easy guidelines for formal address in Cerilia.

    Here are some questions I have. First, addressing the regent. We've been using my liege, or simply "regent" (as in "Yes, regent" for this. What do you guys do?

    Second, magicians and wizards. Any special titles here? I don't think simply saying "lord" or "lady" does justice to the special status achieved by magic users in some societies.

    Third, I like to assume someone is actually in charge of each province, who then reports to a higher authority. I've been calling this person a Baron, but I have no clue what sort of a person he should be. Mayor is more city level... anyway, any suggestions on this?

    I'm about to go to a new area in our campaign and this Baron person will be there, and so will his court magician. Would like them both to have special titles (Baron and Magister would be fine... but wondering again what you guys do...).

    Thanks!!
    Carpe DM

  2. #2
    heheh we had a rather lengthy discussion about this earlier, here:

    Cultural Titles thread


    Also on my website, I have posted the system that I am currently using for titles.

    Mieres Empire


    For arcane spell casters... well there is Archmage, or mystic, or seer, ect. however, they are really more like job titles not nobility titles, so just giving him a title that is appropriate for his job would make sense. If the arcane caster is of noble blood, then they would more likely use that title instead, unless they do not wish to, or it is unknown by the people.


    now then, normally a Baron would be someone with a bit more land than 1 province, so maybe the title Lord or Count would be more appropriate.
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  3. #3
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    Thanks! I tried searching for this but didn't have any luck... I knew you guys would help me find it. I'll go and read up.
    Carpe DM

  4. #4
    Senior Member blitzmacher's Avatar
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    What would be appropriate military titles or ranks in a rjurik army?
    Cattle die and kinsmen die,
    thyself too soon must die,
    but one thing never, I ween, will die, --
    fair fame of one who has earned.
    HAVAMAL

  5. #5
    Well, there are some books on the subject if you do a google search for viking military titles or ranks.

    actually here, just found this site:

    Viking Military Organization

    Heres a quick quote from the site:

    During the 11th century

    There was very little formal structure by way of military rank in Viking armies. As a rule the term dreng is applied to a young warrior, and šegn to a more mature member of a boat's crew. The only two specifically military posts referred to at the time were the merkismathr, the standard bearer (an honoured position since many Viking standards were said to have magical properties), and the stallari or marshal - the king's deputy in the field.

    Heres another site and quote: The Vikings


    Scandinavian society was broken into classes as were most societies of the period.* At the top was the RigsJarl or King, then came the Jarls who were lesser rulers, next were the Karls or Noble Warriors, and Thegnes or Bondi who were free warriors of lesser standing, last came the Thralls who were owned slave labour.

    The most famous of the warrior brotherhoods, or mercenary bands of Vikings, was the Jomsvikingelag or Jomsvikings which was the subject of its own Saga. Danish accounts say the Jomsvikings were established in Wendland in the 10th century by Harald Blue Tooth of Denmark who was banished from his own kingdom by his son Swein Forkbeard. The fortress of Jomsborg was at or near Wollin at the mouth of the Oder. It had an artificial harbour, with its entrance guarded by a great tower built upon an archway with iron gates.

    The harbour was said to hold over 300 ships but 30-36 is a more likely figure. The Jomsvikings lived by extremely strict rules, and trained to fight as a unit. Membership in the brotherhood was limited to men of outstanding strength, courage, and fighting ability, between 18 and 50 years of age. They were never to show any fear no matter how hopeless matters were. Flight from battle was forbidden and carried a death penalty. To abandon a brother in combat was a death penalty.

    Each summer they went forth and fought in wars in many lands, and their reputation grew, a reputation of winning and never giving in to the enemy. A reputation of courage and martial ability.
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  6. #6
    Site Moderator Fearless_Leader's Avatar
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    Originally posted by camelotcrusade@Jun 3 2004, 05:12 AM
    Hi everyone,

    We like to play up the formalities of the court in RP, but we are making it up on the fly. We don't mind doing that, but I was wondering if anyone had a quick and easy guidelines for formal address in Cerilia.

    Here are some questions I have. First, addressing the regent. We've been using my liege, or simply "regent" (as in "Yes, regent" for this. What do you guys do?

    Second, magicians and wizards. Any special titles here? I don't think simply saying "lord" or "lady" does justice to the special status achieved by magic users in some societies.

    Third, I like to assume someone is actually in charge of each province, who then reports to a higher authority. I've been calling this person a Baron, but I have no clue what sort of a person he should be. Mayor is more city level... anyway, any suggestions on this?

    I'm about to go to a new area in our campaign and this Baron person will be there, and so will his court magician. Would like them both to have special titles (Baron and Magister would be fine... but wondering again what you guys do...).

    Thanks!!
    I have a fair bit about Anuirean titles and formal methods of address up on my page as well. http://www.geocities.com/fearless_leader10...II/society.html

    Basically, it goes as follows:

    Emperor "Your Majesty" (Also applies to Kings)
    Prince "Your Highness"
    Duke/ Archduke "Your Grace"
    Baron "My Lord Baron"
    Count "Your Excellency"
    Other titles "Your Lordship"

    Archpriests "Your Eminence"

    Guilds and wizards are typically referred to as "Guildmaster" or some such, especially if they are commoners. Should a guildsman or wizard hold a noble title, then the list above applies.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, blitzmacher wrote:



    > What would be appropriate military titles or ranks in a rjurik army?



    On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, tcharazazel wrote:



    > Well, there are some books on the subject if you do a google search,

    > however, here are some basic military ranks for ya.

    >

    > lowest to highest:

    > Thrall, Landsmen, Carl, Huscarl, then maybe Chief then Jarl then King.



    Those are all really social/economic classes, rather than military ranks

    as such. I don`t think the Rjurik really have equivalents of corporal,

    sergeant, major, colonel, etc. -- in fact, I doubt any realm in Cerilia

    does. This is really a very modern way of doing things; there`s almost

    none of this in Europe before the 18th century except for the Roman

    Empire. The terms given do have specific meanings in Rjurik society,

    however, so any game set there can profit from working them in properly.

    In Cerilia, I`d restrict modern/Roman military procedures to the dwarves.



    That said, these words are authentic expressions for important social

    realities in the real-world peoples on whom the Rjurik are largely based,

    so including them in a game set there I think is a fine idea; however, I`d

    recommend using them for what they really meant, rather than confusing

    everybody by reusing them wil different technical definitions.



    Obviously, only the King is the King. =) In BR, Jarls are regents of

    provinces (this is the definition used by "The Rjurik Highlands"

    accessory), and Chiefs are the leaders of nomadic tribes.



    A thrall is a slave; it was generally held by the Celtic and Germanic

    societies on which the Rjurik are based that one of the defining

    characteristics distinguishing a free man from a slave is that a free man

    should bear arms to defend his family, but a slave is permitted no

    weapons. Therefore, if you hand a thrall a weapon, by doing so you make

    him a free man! You`d better be prepared to pay his purchase price to his

    former owner, or become a thrall yourself in his place if you can`t afford

    the price! Killing the slaveowner you`ve just robbed and starting a

    blood-feud with his family is also a possible option. =) Even if you

    ignore this legal technicality, you at least provide him the means to make

    himself into one by escaping; it is extremely tricky and generally unwise

    to make slaves into an army.



    Carls are prosperous farmers; this same word (Anglo-Saxon `ceorl`)

    eventually became English `churl`, which is a derogatory word, but

    old-time Viking carls were the upper middle class. That makes landsman

    (I`ve seen a lot of other words for this class) the poorer farmer types.



    The only strictly military term on the list is huscarl; literally,

    House-Carl, the prosperous freemen a noble maintained as part of his

    household as professional warriors. One word missing from the list is

    "thane" (rhymes with "rain"; also spelled "thegn", which rhymes with

    "reign" ;) -- this word can mean minor nobleman, wealthy farmers or

    merchant, famous warrior, etc. In BR terms, there should be at least one

    and probably several people associated with each level of a law or guild

    or province holding who is referred to as a thane of some kind.



    The way this stuff operates in practice in military engagements is that

    each tribe or other political unit has a warband, which consists of all

    the professional warriors kept on staff (call them huscarls if you like,

    or "weaponthanes", but just "warrior" will do fine as well) led by a

    champion or warleader or other such term. In times of crisis, all the

    freemen (and women, depending on your Cerilia`s attitude toward such

    things) may be called up to defend their homes, which in BR is just levies

    (or irregulars in tribal Rjurik provinces, if you use those special

    rules); a good Anglo-Saxon collective noun for these people is "fyrd"

    (pronounced mostly like "feared", which is very appropriate, somehow).



    Beyond that, it probably isn`t broken down very much. However, since

    personal reputation is such a powerful force in such a society, as is the

    web of favors owed one way and another, and the other people in the unit

    are probably all your neighbors and relatives, social considerations

    determine who leads (The King is in command, followed by his brother, then

    the Jarl of the most important province, then the Jarl who brought the

    biggest warband -- which has his cousin as second in command, then his

    nephew, then the famous warrior Sven the Orog-Hammer, etc.). Also, among

    the warriors, they will spend enough time competing against each other in

    one way or another that they will always known their place in the pecking

    order, so there is no need to establish a formal procedure of heirarchy:

    everyone in the Raven Clan knows that if their warleader, Bjorn, falls,

    then Ragnar will take over; if he falls as well, Halfdan is the next-best

    warrior, and so on. If you get to the point where nobody you know is left

    standing, it`s long past time to have run away.



    If you really want different ranks for lance corporals and colour

    sergeants and subalterns and lieutenant colonels and all that, it needs to

    be in a realm which is very closely tied to the more settled and

    regimented societies of Anuire or possibly Brechtur; in that case, they

    will probably be using the foreign words of whatever neighbor country they

    got the rank structure from, and they will all sound very strange indeed

    to the local folk. The traditional countryside Rjurik and the druids

    should be dead-set against any such thing.





    Ryan Caveney

  8. #8
    Go reread my post, i had edited it, after I first posted it.
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    tcharazazel said:

    > Go reread my post, i had edited it, after I first posted it.



    I am not sure if us email plebs get updates when people edit posts.

    Perhaps you could summarise the changes for those of us that are petrified

    of forums?



    --

    John Machin

    (trithemius@kallisti.net.nz)

    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

    - Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  10. #10
    heh, ill just repost it here for ya then:

    Well, there are some books on the subject if you do a google search for viking military titles or ranks.

    actually here, just found this site:

    Viking Military Organization

    Heres a quick quote from the site:

    During the 11th century


    QUOTE
    There was very little formal structure by way of military rank in Viking armies. As a rule the term dreng is applied to a young warrior, and šegn to a more mature member of a boat's crew. The only two specifically military posts referred to at the time were the merkismathr, the standard bearer (an honoured position since many Viking standards were said to have magical properties), and the stallari or marshal - the king's deputy in the field.




    Heres another site and quote: The Vikings


    QUOTE

    Scandinavian society was broken into classes as were most societies of the period. At the top was the RigsJarl or King, then came the Jarls who were lesser rulers, next were the Karls or Noble Warriors, and Thegnes or Bondi who were free warriors of lesser standing, last came the Thralls who were owned slave labour.





    QUOTE
    The most famous of the warrior brotherhoods, or mercenary bands of Vikings, was the Jomsvikingelag or Jomsvikings which was the subject of its own Saga. Danish accounts say the Jomsvikings were established in Wendland in the 10th century by Harald Blue Tooth of Denmark who was banished from his own kingdom by his son Swein Forkbeard. The fortress of Jomsborg was at or near Wollin at the mouth of the Oder. It had an artificial harbour, with its entrance guarded by a great tower built upon an archway with iron gates.

    The harbour was said to hold over 300 ships but 30-36 is a more likely figure. The Jomsvikings lived by extremely strict rules, and trained to fight as a unit. Membership in the brotherhood was limited to men of outstanding strength, courage, and fighting ability, between 18 and 50 years of age. They were never to show any fear no matter how hopeless matters were. Flight from battle was forbidden and carried a death penalty. To abandon a brother in combat was a death penalty.

    Each summer they went forth and fought in wars in many lands, and their reputation grew, a reputation of winning and never giving in to the enemy. A reputation of courage and martial ability.
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

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