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Thread: Drow?

  1. #1
    patera
    Guest

    Drow?

    Do drow exist under Aebrynis?

  2. #2
    Daniel McSorley
    Guest

    Drow?

    >Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
    Gut rxn: For the love of god, no!
    Reasoned response: I have never heard anything about an underdark per se in
    Aebrynis, though there is occasional mention of the network of orog tunnels
    (I think exaggerated). The elves in Cerilia, at least, have been too busy
    warring with the humaniods, then the humans, and now the awnshegh plus the
    other two, to have time for a intraracial war to drive some off their number
    underground. Plus, drow don't seem to fit the atmosphere of BR, and if you
    want me to explain that, then you wouldn't understand :) It's something I
    can't express real well, it just is.
    Daniel McSorley
    mcsorley.1@osu.edu
    ICQ:5299865
    AIM:DanMcS

  3. #3
    Craig Greeson
    Guest

    Drow?

    Greetings,
    IMO, it's totally up to the DM whether Dark Elves exist. In a few BR products
    (particularly the adventure Warlock of the Stonecrowns) it is hinted that they
    can be found. IMC they are. The Dark Elves are descendants of the elves who
    remained loyal to Azrai in the War of Shadow and at Mt. Deismaar. I've
    rationalized it by saying the elves that stayed loyal to Azrai were shunned by
    their Sidhelien brethren and mercilessly hunted by the humans. They fled to the
    Underdark to avoid extermination. If you don't want dark elves, however, it is
    easy to rationalize that the elves hated the Underdark so much that they would
    never have fled there.

    Regards
    Craig

    patera wrote:
    >
    > Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  4. #4
    patera
    Guest

    Drow?

    I agree that the drow don't fit into the setting, but the underdark is
    present in one of the published adventures(I can't remember which one off
    the top of my head). This leads me to believe that the drow or svirfneblin
    are present down there(could these be the cerilian gnome in hiding?).

    - ----------
    > From: Daniel McSorley
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Drow?
    > Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 6:27 PM
    >
    > >Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
    > Gut rxn: For the love of god, no!
    > Reasoned response: I have never heard anything about an underdark per se
    in
    > Aebrynis, though there is occasional mention of the network of orog
    tunnels
    > (I think exaggerated). The elves in Cerilia, at least, have been too
    busy
    > warring with the humaniods, then the humans, and now the awnshegh plus
    the
    > other two, to have time for a intraracial war to drive some off their
    number
    > underground. Plus, drow don't seem to fit the atmosphere of BR, and if
    you
    > want me to explain that, then you wouldn't understand :) It's something
    I
    > can't express real well, it just is.
    > Daniel McSorley
    > mcsorley.1@osu.edu
    > ICQ:5299865
    > AIM:DanMcS
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  5. #5
    LordSchmit
    Guest

    Drow?

    >Greetings,
    >IMO, it's totally up to the DM whether Dark Elves exist. In a few BR
    products
    >(particularly the adventure Warlock of the Stonecrowns) it is hinted that
    they
    >can be found. IMC they are. The Dark Elves are descendants of the elves who
    >remained loyal to Azrai in the War of Shadow and at Mt. Deismaar. I've
    >rationalized it by saying the elves that stayed loyal to Azrai were shunned
    by
    >their Sidhelien brethren and mercilessly hunted by the humans. They fled to
    the
    >Underdark to avoid extermination. If you don't want dark elves, however, it
    is
    >easy to rationalize that the elves hated the Underdark so much that they
    would
    >never have fled there.

    That doesn't explain Rhoubhe Manslayer. He stayed loyal to Azrai, and he is
    still, in a sense, an elf. The other elves that stayed loyal to Azrai simply
    stayed with Rhoubhe. The other elves, while they don't totally accept these
    elves, don't totally shun them either. Rhoubhe and his followers could be
    considered "dark elves" in a sense. But Drow, as they appear in Greyhawk or
    FR, simply don't fit into the Birthright world. The normal elves are dangerous
    enough.

  6. #6
    Memnoch
    Guest

    Drow?

    Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con and they
    stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only race of
    elves on (or below) Aebrynis. Now, this doesn't preclude the possibility of
    inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far as the
    official product goes. The reference to the dead drow in Warlock of the
    Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...

    Memnoch
    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Craig Greeson
    To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 10:40 PM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Drow?


    >Greetings,
    >IMO, it's totally up to the DM whether Dark Elves exist. In a few BR
    products
    >(particularly the adventure Warlock of the Stonecrowns) it is hinted that
    they
    >can be found. IMC they are. The Dark Elves are descendants of the elves
    who
    >remained loyal to Azrai in the War of Shadow and at Mt. Deismaar. I've
    >rationalized it by saying the elves that stayed loyal to Azrai were shunned
    by
    >their Sidhelien brethren and mercilessly hunted by the humans. They fled
    to the
    >Underdark to avoid extermination. If you don't want dark elves, however,
    it is
    >easy to rationalize that the elves hated the Underdark so much that they
    would
    >never have fled there.
    >
    >Regards
    >Craig
    >
    >patera wrote:
    >>
    >> Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
    >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    >> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >************************************************* **************************
    >>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >

  7. #7
    John Ewan
    Guest

    Drow?

    At 23:05 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
    >Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con and they
    >stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only race of
    >elves on (or below) Aebrynis. Now, this doesn't preclude the possibility of
    >inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far as the
    >official product goes. The reference to the dead drow in Warlock of the
    >Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...

    I don't want drow in my BR campaign, I like the orogs being the bad guys
    underground along with the goblins in places like Kal Karathor. However,
    the drow description could be used to make for interesting denizens on the
    Shadowworld; what would the court of Tuarheival be like there? The Thorn
    Throne would be rather dangerous, I think.
    John Ewan, Sysop | Look for me online at MPG-Net
    Multi-Player Games Network | as Gimli jwe@mpgn.com
    http://www.mpgn.com |

  8. #8
    Gary V. Foss
    Guest

    Drow?

    - --------------37FFDAE489946CD87D9933A9
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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    John Ewan wrote:

    > At 23:05 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
    > >Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con and they
    > >stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only race of
    > >elves on (or below) Aebrynis. Now, this doesn't preclude the possibility of
    > >inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far as the
    > >official product goes. The reference to the dead drow in Warlock of the
    > >Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...
    >
    > I don't want drow in my BR campaign, I like the orogs being the bad guys
    > underground along with the goblins in places like Kal Karathor. However,
    > the drow description could be used to make for interesting denizens on the
    > Shadowworld; what would the court of Tuarheival be like there? The Thorn
    > Throne would be rather dangerous, I think.

    That's an interesting idea. The Thorn Throne could indeed be a pretty hairy
    place to spend the weekend. Though I'm not wild about the thought of drow
    inhabiting the Shadowworld. Putting drow (and gnomes that people have pointed
    out might exist) in Cerilia just seems to water down the campaign setting IMO.

    One of the things that differentiates BR from other worlds in the AD&D universe
    is that there aren't half a dozen derivations of the demi-human races running
    around. In fact, the opposite is true. Humans have subraces, demi-humans do
    not. Personally, I like that. It never made sense to me that beings who breed
    so much more slowly than humans (as almost all demi-human races seem to do) would
    have a more diverse population. Oh, you can justify it by saying that its the
    influence of the gods, or the cultural niche that the subraces found themselves
    in, but at a certain point these justifications start getting a little contrived
    and they take away from the epic feeling of the BR setting.

    For the same reasons, I don't like psionics in BR, or planewalking, or very many
    standard DMG magic items. These are things that belong to the generic AD&D
    universe and, therefore, tend to blur the distinctiveness of the BR setting.

    There will, no doubt, be an effort to throw more of these things into BR. In
    fact, I'd say it has already begun. The folks at WoC/TSR have to pay attention
    to the marketplace and their demographics just like anybody else trying to make a
    living in what many people have found to be a shaky business. The generic AD&D
    stuff sells. That's why it's still around. My rudimentary understanding of
    marketing leads me to believe that from a marketing standpoint the more of that
    stuff you get into a campaign world the more likely you are to keep that campaign
    world alive.

    Hmmm. This message has taken on a decidedly preachy tone that I hadn't really
    intended when I started. I'll sign off now before I decide to pass around the
    collection plate....

    - -G.

    - --------------37FFDAE489946CD87D9933A9
    Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


    John Ewan wrote:
    At 23:05 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
    >Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con
    and they
    >stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only
    race of
    >elves on (or below) Aebrynis.  Now, this doesn't preclude the
    possibility of
    >inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far
    as the
    >official product goes.  The reference to the dead drow in Warlock
    of the
    >Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...

    I don't want drow in my BR campaign, I like the orogs being the bad
    guys
    underground along with the goblins in places like Kal Karathor. 
    However,
    the drow description could be used to make for interesting denizens
    on the
    Shadowworld; what would the court of Tuarheival be like there? 
    The Thorn
    Throne would be rather dangerous, I think. <g>
    That's an interesting idea.  The Thorn Throne could indeed be a pretty
    hairy place to spend the weekend.  Though I'm not wild about the thought
    of drow inhabiting the Shadowworld.  Putting drow (and gnomes that
    people have pointed out might exist) in Cerilia just seems to water
    down the campaign setting IMO.

    One of the things that differentiates BR from other worlds in the AD&D
    universe is that there aren't half a dozen derivations of the demi-human
    races running around.  In fact, the opposite is true.  Humans
    have subraces, demi-humans do not.  Personally, I like that. 
    It never made sense to me that beings who breed so much more slowly than
    humans (as almost all demi-human races seem to do) would have a more diverse
    population.  Oh, you can justify it by saying that its the influence
    of the gods, or the cultural niche that the subraces found themselves in,
    but at a certain point these justifications start getting a little contrived
    and they take away from the epic feeling of the BR setting.

    For the same reasons, I don't like psionics in BR, or planewalking,
    or very many standard DMG magic items.  These are things that belong
    to the generic AD&D universe and, therefore, tend to blur the distinctiveness
    of the BR setting.

    There will, no doubt, be an effort to throw more of these things into
    BR.  In fact, I'd say it has already begun.  The folks at WoC/TSR
    have to pay attention to the marketplace and their demographics just like
    anybody else trying to make a living in what many people have found to
    be a shaky business.  The generic AD&D stuff sells.  That's
    why it's still around.  My rudimentary understanding of marketing
    leads me to believe that from a marketing standpoint the more of that stuff
    you get into a campaign world the more likely you are to keep that campaign
    world alive.

    Hmmm.  This message has taken on a decidedly preachy tone that
    I hadn't really intended when I started.  I'll sign off now before
    I decide to pass around the collection plate....

    -G.

    - --------------37FFDAE489946CD87D9933A9--

  9. #9
    Phil Burge
    Guest

    Drow?

    LordSchmit wrote:

    > That doesn't explain Rhoubhe Manslayer. He stayed loyal to Azrai, and he is
    > still, in a sense, an elf. The other elves that stayed loyal to Azrai simply
    > stayed with Rhoubhe. The other elves, while they don't totally accept these
    > elves, don't totally shun them either. Rhoubhe and his followers could be
    > considered "dark elves" in a sense. But Drow, as they appear in Greyhawk or
    > FR, simply don't fit into the Birthright world. The normal elves are dangerous
    > enough.

    Rhoubhe Manslayer did not remain loyal to Azari as such but fought on
    his side as Azari was, like Rhoubhe, intent on destroying humanity. I am
    inclined to think that Rhoubhe felt (and feels) no loyalty to Azari at
    all, they were simply two beings with the same goals working together.

    Phil.

  10. #10
    Brian Stoner
    Guest

    Drow?

    At first, I thought there were no Drow. Then I saw the mention of them in
    Warlock of The Stonecrowns. I concluded that the original intention (and indeed,
    the current idea) is that there are no Drow. I decided that for the sake of
    keeping things in that campaign "by the book", as it was my first, I would make
    up a reason. I told the elves of the party that there were Drow on Cerilia.
    These Drow however, were few and far beneath the surface...farther down than the
    Dwarves or Orogs ever went. Elves, Orogs, and Dwarves knew of them...but no
    human did, or ever had. And, they were so rare, that they were not likely to
    ever encounter them.

    My subsequent campaigns do not have them...at all. But, the possibility of some
    sort of Dark Elf in the Shadow World intrigues me...

    Brian...aka Dearnen

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