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Thread: Least Favorite - FR
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03-12-1998, 11:47 AM #11nick yatesGuest
Least Favorite - FR
>Re. Elves, and the FR: I have, for example, the Evermeet accessory, and
>it's very cool. FR elves aren't horrid. But IMO that accessory also points
>out the weakness of the setting. IMO, not much oportunity for adventure on
>Evermeet unless you're actively opposing the elven nation.
>
>the Seven Sisters was also a exceptionally well-written, highly detailed
>accessory. But unless I'm running a campaign with evil PCs, or where the
>PCs need a whole lot of help/support, most of that info is rather wasted. I
>mean, it's one thing to have Alustriel (my personal fav. of the 7) give the
>PCs a mission (adventure) and have 'em carry it out; but for that we don't
>really need a complete NPC description of her as if she'll be used in
>combat etc.
. But if I'm a PC in a game, I don't really want her and her
>sisters to come solve every problem for me. I wanna be the one to defeat
>the villian.)
>
In that case FR might be just the place for a supermunchkin evil party,
take that Elminster! :-) I remember playing a Star Wars campaign once as
the Imperials, much fun was had being totally evil, flushing Rebel
prisoners out of airlocks etc.
Before I'm done for going off topic I'll drag it back to the original
point which was I think that races should be different in different
settings. I'd agree with that and I happen to like the BR Elves much more
than elven races in other settings.
For me it doesn't particularly matter what cool abilities they have but
actually playing an "immortal" character would be interesting and a good
change. Having said that though PCs aren't exactly the most long lived of
people. :-) Sorry my evil DM side of my nature got the better of me
there. Speaking of which races people play does anyone play Halflings in
BR? There's one halfling nation in HotGB that looks quite interesting.
Nick
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03-12-1998, 11:47 AM #12rad smithGuest
Least Favorite - FR
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Shade wrote:
> Is it just me, or does everyone on this list hate/dislike the Forgotten
> Realms?
i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly, the
rest of it stank.
'in this village is small tavern. the landlord (HM11 NG)...'
ugh.
- --
rad
i've got my hand in your head
i've got my hand in your head
and i'm pulling out all of your mind
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03-12-1998, 01:24 PM #13TrippGuest
Least Favorite - FR
Galwylin wrote:
>
How did I get on the FR listserv? I thought we were here to discuss BR,
not bash any of the other worlds?
Tripp
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03-12-1998, 01:43 PM #14Petras AstrauskasGuest
Least Favorite - FR
> How did I get on the FR listserv? I thought we were here to discuss BR,
> not bash any of the other worlds?
Don't you think that visiting the other worlds gives you new good ideas
sometimes? Or you can find out that you shouldn't do something. Or at
least you can notice how wonderful the world you live in is.
Petras
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03-12-1998, 01:59 PM #15James RayGuest
Least Favorite - FR
- ----------
> From: Galwylin
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Least Favorite - FR
> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 8:54 PM
>
> On 12 Mar 98 at 3:07, Samuel Weiss wrote:
>
That's just not enough to sell anyone on
> it. And keeping those said 'newbies' away are exactly why TSR is on
> the edge of going under. No matter what you want for a setting it
> has to appeal to new players and your desire to keep them out only
> dooms the company and eventually Greyhawk.
More likely to doom the company are: 1) Trying to adapt the game to its
least common denominator, the "Mony Haul" types, who strut around with
their sacks full of +5 and +6 weapons, riding mounts with +5 barding, and
so on and so forth.
2) Not getting stuff onto store shelves. We cant BUY it, if we cant FIND
it, and i have yet to see "TotHW". 3) If the stuff is selling, make sure
there is more of it around. Kinda sad to hear about BR products being sold
out already, when i KNOW i can still get "new" DS stuff, still in the
original plastic. 4) Make sure the product has been proofread...i mean,
hey - my copy of Al-Qadim doesnt have pp 129-145. Reprinted where they
SHOULD be, are duplicates of pp113-128. Couldnt play without all the
spells, and wasnt EVEN gonna sink ANOTHER $18 trying to get a usable copy
after that. (BTW, i hope someone got fired, over that one.)
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03-12-1998, 03:45 PM #16GalwylinGuest
Least Favorite - FR
At 07:59 AM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>More likely to doom the company are: 1) Trying to adapt the game to its
>least common denominator, the "Mony Haul" types, who strut around with
>their sacks full of +5 and +6 weapons, riding mounts with +5 barding, and
>so on and so forth.
I don't believe the company is doing that. Most the time I've heard of
things like that is in home campaigns. In fact, most of the older
materials were more guilty of that type thing than adventures today. Maybe
people like that kind of game. I dunno, never played in one like that.
>2) Not getting stuff onto store shelves. We cant BUY it, if we cant FIND
>it, and i have yet to see "TotHW".
My store has had that. I suggest you talk with your reseller.
>3) If the stuff is selling, make sure
>there is more of it around. Kinda sad to hear about BR products being sold
>out already, when i KNOW i can still get "new" DS stuff, still in the
>original plastic.
That DS stuff has been sitting in warehouses with dealers unwilling to take
it because the campaign box is out of print. TSR is reprinting it though
to get the stuff moving again.
>4) Make sure the product has been proofread...i mean,
>hey - my copy of Al-Qadim doesnt have pp 129-145. Reprinted where they
>SHOULD be, are duplicates of pp113-128. Couldnt play without all the
>spells, and wasnt EVEN gonna sink ANOTHER $18 trying to get a usable copy
>after that. (BTW, i hope someone got fired, over that one.)
I have two copies of that book and both are complete. Probably a printing
error. You should have gotten in touch with TSR customer service. I'm
sure they would have been happy to have helped you.
In my opinion, TSR is doing alot of the right things to attract new players
(if it's not too late). Birthright is just one way they've stretched the
AD&D rules farther to make a completely different game than before. That's
one reason I feel the debasing of other settings is pointless since they
all appeal to different moods of players. I enjoy many different settings
and Birthright is just the newest. Just about any mood I'm in there's
something there for me to use. I currently have a couple hundred dollars
of BR stuff on order and already shopping around for more but I haven't
recieved any of the Player's Guide to *****. Could someone give me an idea
of what I'll find in those?
_____________________________________
This has been a Galwylin© Production
galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972)
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/
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03-12-1998, 05:44 PM #17Samuel WeissGuest
Least Favorite - FR
>I don't think he was mocking them. . .I suppose I should re-read; his
statement was that if all Halflings became Kender, or canibals, on all
gameworlds, that would be bad. This doesn't mean that the Halflings of
Athas were being derided, just that having variations from gameworld to
gameworld is good.<
While I will mock kender as I dislike DL, my intent was as you believed. To
show that the variations are what makes the gameworlds, and that to make
them all the same is to lose that vital element.
>Well, 1st Traveller was converted to Megatraveller, which was ok I guess,
after a fashion. I prolly shouldn't get into it.<
It's ok. "The big book of typos" was pretty sad, we can admit that. I even
asked them at a Con if they were going to go over it to check such things
out before it was shipped and they said yes. *Sigh*
"Hmmmn. . .I also point out what I think are flaws in the way the FR has
gone because I know TSR people read the lists. I'm hoping that my rants,
and other people's more reasoned arguments, will encourage them to keep BR
on the path it's currently on."
That too.
>i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly, the
rest of it stank.<
Which did not need the FR to be playable. And which was so good, it could
be adated to almost any setting, even BR if you get rid of 99% of the
demi-human NPC's. It would be perfect for Djapur I would think. BTW, I
bought the softcover book not realizing it was set in the FR. But it was so
good, I bought the whole line and was glad I did.Note to TSR people, see
the paragraph above and make more like this. But then you already are with
Jakandor, aren't you?
Samwise
P.S. for those experienceng difficulty with finding BR products. In NYC,
The Compleat Strategist, 1-800-225-2123 for mail orders. Or fax
212-685-2123. I believe I saw everything but the boxed set on the shelves
Tuesday. They can't get rid of the stuff, and I figure if you people buy it
all up, they will buy lots of the new stuff so a copy will still be there
when I get into the city. I don't know what the shipping charges are, but
the stuff is all shrink-wrapped and list price. (Also maybe you will stop
complaining you can't find it anywhere. Now you know where it all is. : P)
Most of the PS stuff too.
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03-12-1998, 09:42 PM #18prtr02@scorpion.nspco.coGuest
Least Favorite - FR
- ----- Begin Included Message -----
"Hmmmn. . .I also point out what I think are flaws in the way the FR has
gone because I know TSR people read the lists. I'm hoping that my rants,
and other people's more reasoned arguments, will encourage them to keep BR
on the path it's currently on."
That too.
>i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly, the
rest of it stank.<
Which did not need the FR to be playable. And which was so good, it could
be adated to almost any setting, even BR if you get rid of 99% of the
demi-human NPC's. It would be perfect for Djapur I would think. BTW, I
bought the softcover book not realizing it was set in the FR. But it was so
good, I bought the whole line and was glad I did.Note to TSR people, see
the paragraph above and make more like this. But then you already are with
Jakandor, aren't you?
- ----- End Included Message -----
I couldn't agree more. While I've enjoyed DS and Al-Quadim, I pretty much
detest FR. Part of the process of describing what something is involves
describing what it isn't. That isn't childish, it's having the courage to
voice one's opinions. I certainly feel free to take a good-natured poke at
FR on occasion.
Likewise, others are free to enjoy the type of adventure FR offers. I don't say
people shouldn't play that setting- just MO that BR is superior by comparison.
BR is a unique high fantasy/rare magic/political setting. Characters have
reasons to adventure and role-play far beyond "kill the monster and get the
treasure".
I don't think there's much thought of transformation to a more generic setting on the existing BR team, but hey, team members change and they get direction from
superiors too.
I stand with the crowd that says "keep BR on the path it's currently on". If
the setting's uniqueness has to be sacrificed to improve sales, I say *gasp*
let it die. I'd rather see that then have it transformed into a generic D&D
setting. Better an end in horror than a horror without end.
Randax
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03-12-1998, 09:59 PM #19bloebick@juno.com (BenjaGuest
Least Favorite - FR
On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:44:00 -0500 "Samuel Weiss"
writes:
>i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly,
>the rest of it stank.<
>
>Which did not need the FR to be playable. And which was so good, it
>could
>be adated to almost any setting, even BR if you get rid of 99% of the
>demi-human NPC's. It would be perfect for Djapur I would think. BTW, I
>bought the softcover book not realizing it was set in the FR. But it
>was so
>good, I bought the whole line and was glad I did.Note to TSR people,
>see
yeah, al-qadim rocked. i bought everything published for it. i also
like the fact that it is modular, ie, can be dropped into any world
without specific ties to one or the other.
>P.S. for those experienceng difficulty with finding BR products. In
>NYC,
>The Compleat Strategist, 1-800-225-2123 for mail orders. Or fax
>212-685-2123. I believe I saw everything but the boxed set on the
>shelves
the Compleat Strategist also has a store in Boston, on Massachusetts Ave.
about 2.5 blocks south of the Hynes Convention Center stop (right at
Tower Records).
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03-12-1998, 10:20 PM #20George KochGuest
Least Favorite - FR
> > have. It your whole response you didn't state one grace of Greyhawk
> > other than what it's not. That's just not enough to sell anyone on
> > it.
> >
> Hmmmn. . .I could say some good things about Greyhawk. It and thouse old
> Judges Guild mapsets were my 1st packaged campaign worlds. Greyhawk does
> have it's own richness, it's own flavor. Heck, I remember when the whole
(BIG SNIP!)
Thought I'd jump in here...
I loved the old Greyhawk world... The original Greyhawk had a map with a brief
description of each country and its ruler.. One of my characters (my namesake Maxwell
QuickSilver) actually became the King of Celene (Lord Raltha of all Elvenkind.. whatever
that means)...
The first thing that attracted me to Birthright was that it reminded me of Greyhawk only
even more fleshed out!!!
Frankly my group still hasn't gotten comfortable with being regents, domain actions, etc.
etc... but all agree that even without that part of it... Cerilia is just a great
adventure world.... QSilver...
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