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  1. #11
    nick yates
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    >Re. Elves, and the FR: I have, for example, the Evermeet accessory, and
    >it's very cool. FR elves aren't horrid. But IMO that accessory also points
    >out the weakness of the setting. IMO, not much oportunity for adventure on
    >Evermeet unless you're actively opposing the elven nation.
    >
    >the Seven Sisters was also a exceptionally well-written, highly detailed
    >accessory. But unless I'm running a campaign with evil PCs, or where the
    >PCs need a whole lot of help/support, most of that info is rather wasted. I
    >mean, it's one thing to have Alustriel (my personal fav. of the 7) give the
    >PCs a mission (adventure) and have 'em carry it out; but for that we don't
    >really need a complete NPC description of her as if she'll be used in
    >combat etc.

    . But if I'm a PC in a game, I don't really want her and her
    >sisters to come solve every problem for me. I wanna be the one to defeat
    >the villian.)
    >

    In that case FR might be just the place for a supermunchkin evil party,
    take that Elminster! :-) I remember playing a Star Wars campaign once as
    the Imperials, much fun was had being totally evil, flushing Rebel
    prisoners out of airlocks etc.

    Before I'm done for going off topic I'll drag it back to the original
    point which was I think that races should be different in different
    settings. I'd agree with that and I happen to like the BR Elves much more
    than elven races in other settings.

    For me it doesn't particularly matter what cool abilities they have but
    actually playing an "immortal" character would be interesting and a good
    change. Having said that though PCs aren't exactly the most long lived of
    people. :-) Sorry my evil DM side of my nature got the better of me
    there. Speaking of which races people play does anyone play Halflings in
    BR? There's one halfling nation in HotGB that looks quite interesting.

    Nick

  2. #12
    rad smith
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Shade wrote:

    > Is it just me, or does everyone on this list hate/dislike the Forgotten
    > Realms?

    i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly, the
    rest of it stank.

    'in this village is small tavern. the landlord (HM11 NG)...'

    ugh.


    - --
    rad

    i've got my hand in your head
    i've got my hand in your head
    and i'm pulling out all of your mind

  3. #13
    Tripp
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    Galwylin wrote:
    >

    How did I get on the FR listserv? I thought we were here to discuss BR,
    not bash any of the other worlds?

    Tripp

  4. #14
    Petras Astrauskas
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    > How did I get on the FR listserv? I thought we were here to discuss BR,
    > not bash any of the other worlds?
    Don't you think that visiting the other worlds gives you new good ideas
    sometimes? Or you can find out that you shouldn't do something. Or at
    least you can notice how wonderful the world you live in is.
    Petras

  5. #15
    James Ray
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    - ----------
    > From: Galwylin
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Least Favorite - FR
    > Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 8:54 PM
    >
    > On 12 Mar 98 at 3:07, Samuel Weiss wrote:
    >
    That's just not enough to sell anyone on
    > it. And keeping those said 'newbies' away are exactly why TSR is on
    > the edge of going under. No matter what you want for a setting it
    > has to appeal to new players and your desire to keep them out only
    > dooms the company and eventually Greyhawk.

    More likely to doom the company are: 1) Trying to adapt the game to its
    least common denominator, the "Mony Haul" types, who strut around with
    their sacks full of +5 and +6 weapons, riding mounts with +5 barding, and
    so on and so forth.
    2) Not getting stuff onto store shelves. We cant BUY it, if we cant FIND
    it, and i have yet to see "TotHW". 3) If the stuff is selling, make sure
    there is more of it around. Kinda sad to hear about BR products being sold
    out already, when i KNOW i can still get "new" DS stuff, still in the
    original plastic. 4) Make sure the product has been proofread...i mean,
    hey - my copy of Al-Qadim doesnt have pp 129-145. Reprinted where they
    SHOULD be, are duplicates of pp113-128. Couldnt play without all the
    spells, and wasnt EVEN gonna sink ANOTHER $18 trying to get a usable copy
    after that. (BTW, i hope someone got fired, over that one.)

  6. #16
    Galwylin
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    At 07:59 AM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
    >
    >More likely to doom the company are: 1) Trying to adapt the game to its
    >least common denominator, the "Mony Haul" types, who strut around with
    >their sacks full of +5 and +6 weapons, riding mounts with +5 barding, and
    >so on and so forth.

    I don't believe the company is doing that. Most the time I've heard of
    things like that is in home campaigns. In fact, most of the older
    materials were more guilty of that type thing than adventures today. Maybe
    people like that kind of game. I dunno, never played in one like that.

    >2) Not getting stuff onto store shelves. We cant BUY it, if we cant FIND
    >it, and i have yet to see "TotHW".

    My store has had that. I suggest you talk with your reseller.

    >3) If the stuff is selling, make sure
    >there is more of it around. Kinda sad to hear about BR products being sold
    >out already, when i KNOW i can still get "new" DS stuff, still in the
    >original plastic.

    That DS stuff has been sitting in warehouses with dealers unwilling to take
    it because the campaign box is out of print. TSR is reprinting it though
    to get the stuff moving again.

    >4) Make sure the product has been proofread...i mean,
    >hey - my copy of Al-Qadim doesnt have pp 129-145. Reprinted where they
    >SHOULD be, are duplicates of pp113-128. Couldnt play without all the
    >spells, and wasnt EVEN gonna sink ANOTHER $18 trying to get a usable copy
    >after that. (BTW, i hope someone got fired, over that one.)

    I have two copies of that book and both are complete. Probably a printing
    error. You should have gotten in touch with TSR customer service. I'm
    sure they would have been happy to have helped you.

    In my opinion, TSR is doing alot of the right things to attract new players
    (if it's not too late). Birthright is just one way they've stretched the
    AD&D rules farther to make a completely different game than before. That's
    one reason I feel the debasing of other settings is pointless since they
    all appeal to different moods of players. I enjoy many different settings
    and Birthright is just the newest. Just about any mood I'm in there's
    something there for me to use. I currently have a couple hundred dollars
    of BR stuff on order and already shopping around for more but I haven't
    recieved any of the Player's Guide to *****. Could someone give me an idea
    of what I'll find in those?

    _____________________________________
    This has been a Galwylin© Production

    galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972)
    http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/

  7. #17
    Samuel Weiss
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    >I don't think he was mocking them. . .I suppose I should re-read; his
    statement was that if all Halflings became Kender, or canibals, on all
    gameworlds, that would be bad. This doesn't mean that the Halflings of
    Athas were being derided, just that having variations from gameworld to
    gameworld is good.<

    While I will mock kender as I dislike DL, my intent was as you believed. To
    show that the variations are what makes the gameworlds, and that to make
    them all the same is to lose that vital element.

    >Well, 1st Traveller was converted to Megatraveller, which was ok I guess,
    after a fashion. I prolly shouldn't get into it.<

    It's ok. "The big book of typos" was pretty sad, we can admit that. I even
    asked them at a Con if they were going to go over it to check such things
    out before it was shipped and they said yes. *Sigh*

    "Hmmmn. . .I also point out what I think are flaws in the way the FR has
    gone because I know TSR people read the lists. I'm hoping that my rants,
    and other people's more reasoned arguments, will encourage them to keep BR
    on the path it's currently on."

    That too.

    >i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly, the
    rest of it stank.<

    Which did not need the FR to be playable. And which was so good, it could
    be adated to almost any setting, even BR if you get rid of 99% of the
    demi-human NPC's. It would be perfect for Djapur I would think. BTW, I
    bought the softcover book not realizing it was set in the FR. But it was so
    good, I bought the whole line and was glad I did.Note to TSR people, see
    the paragraph above and make more like this. But then you already are with
    Jakandor, aren't you?

    Samwise

    P.S. for those experienceng difficulty with finding BR products. In NYC,
    The Compleat Strategist, 1-800-225-2123 for mail orders. Or fax
    212-685-2123. I believe I saw everything but the boxed set on the shelves
    Tuesday. They can't get rid of the stuff, and I figure if you people buy it
    all up, they will buy lots of the new stuff so a copy will still be there
    when I get into the city. I don't know what the shipping charges are, but
    the stuff is all shrink-wrapped and list price. (Also maybe you will stop
    complaining you can't find it anywhere. Now you know where it all is. : P)
    Most of the PS stuff too.

  8. #18
    prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    - ----- Begin Included Message -----

    "Hmmmn. . .I also point out what I think are flaws in the way the FR has
    gone because I know TSR people read the lists. I'm hoping that my rants,
    and other people's more reasoned arguments, will encourage them to keep BR
    on the path it's currently on."

    That too.

    >i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly, the
    rest of it stank.<

    Which did not need the FR to be playable. And which was so good, it could
    be adated to almost any setting, even BR if you get rid of 99% of the
    demi-human NPC's. It would be perfect for Djapur I would think. BTW, I
    bought the softcover book not realizing it was set in the FR. But it was so
    good, I bought the whole line and was glad I did.Note to TSR people, see
    the paragraph above and make more like this. But then you already are with
    Jakandor, aren't you?


    - ----- End Included Message -----

    I couldn't agree more. While I've enjoyed DS and Al-Quadim, I pretty much
    detest FR. Part of the process of describing what something is involves
    describing what it isn't. That isn't childish, it's having the courage to
    voice one's opinions. I certainly feel free to take a good-natured poke at
    FR on occasion.

    Likewise, others are free to enjoy the type of adventure FR offers. I don't say
    people shouldn't play that setting- just MO that BR is superior by comparison.

    BR is a unique high fantasy/rare magic/political setting. Characters have
    reasons to adventure and role-play far beyond "kill the monster and get the
    treasure".

    I don't think there's much thought of transformation to a more generic setting on the existing BR team, but hey, team members change and they get direction from
    superiors too.


    I stand with the crowd that says "keep BR on the path it's currently on". If
    the setting's uniqueness has to be sacrificed to improve sales, I say *gasp*
    let it die. I'd rather see that then have it transformed into a generic D&D
    setting. Better an end in horror than a horror without end.

    Randax

  9. #19
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:44:00 -0500 "Samuel Weiss"
    writes:
    >i liked al-quadim, which IIRC was part of the realms. but frankly,
    >the rest of it stank.<
    >
    >Which did not need the FR to be playable. And which was so good, it
    >could
    >be adated to almost any setting, even BR if you get rid of 99% of the
    >demi-human NPC's. It would be perfect for Djapur I would think. BTW, I
    >bought the softcover book not realizing it was set in the FR. But it
    >was so
    >good, I bought the whole line and was glad I did.Note to TSR people,
    >see

    yeah, al-qadim rocked. i bought everything published for it. i also
    like the fact that it is modular, ie, can be dropped into any world
    without specific ties to one or the other.

    >P.S. for those experienceng difficulty with finding BR products. In
    >NYC,
    >The Compleat Strategist, 1-800-225-2123 for mail orders. Or fax
    >212-685-2123. I believe I saw everything but the boxed set on the
    >shelves

    the Compleat Strategist also has a store in Boston, on Massachusetts Ave.
    about 2.5 blocks south of the Hynes Convention Center stop (right at
    Tower Records).

    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
    Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
    Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

  10. #20
    George Koch
    Guest

    Least Favorite - FR

    > > have. It your whole response you didn't state one grace of Greyhawk
    > > other than what it's not. That's just not enough to sell anyone on
    > > it.
    > >
    > Hmmmn. . .I could say some good things about Greyhawk. It and thouse old
    > Judges Guild mapsets were my 1st packaged campaign worlds. Greyhawk does
    > have it's own richness, it's own flavor. Heck, I remember when the whole
    (BIG SNIP!)

    Thought I'd jump in here...
    I loved the old Greyhawk world... The original Greyhawk had a map with a brief
    description of each country and its ruler.. One of my characters (my namesake Maxwell
    QuickSilver) actually became the King of Celene (Lord Raltha of all Elvenkind.. whatever
    that means)...
    The first thing that attracted me to Birthright was that it reminded me of Greyhawk only
    even more fleshed out!!!
    Frankly my group still hasn't gotten comfortable with being regents, domain actions, etc.
    etc... but all agree that even without that part of it... Cerilia is just a great
    adventure world.... QSilver...

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