Birthright: Regency points

[Neil Barnes]

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Anthony K.G.Shewan wrote:
>
> But how do you ask for the RP?
> Lord: "So it's agreed upon your Oath of Vassalage that you will pay me the
> sum of 2 Gold Bars in currency of the Realm, chattel or sundries and 5 RP"
> Vassal: " Yes m'Lord, but what is an RP?"

I just assume that it's a bit of a handwave - players refer to RPs, to
keep the game simple while characters horsetrade more specific favours
or oaths of support. I don't allow RPs to be traded except through an
Oath of Vassalage, and the strength of the oath would determine how many
RPs are transferred.

The nice thing about this system is that characters never refer to RPS
in game, and it hinders the ability of pcs to cooperate.

neil

[relve@Otdk.Helsinki.F]

I fully agree with Gary. RP's must be more "tangible" otherwise the
"domain rules" would seem illogical. For example: RP's can be saved
and used even 100 years later in another part of Cerilia. If the
Regency reflected only a person's popularity or influence in certain
society, it would be impossible to do so.

Kaarel

> Wait. Shouldn't regents be able to sense RPs? Shouldn't they be a tangible
> thing that they can manipulate, rather than just an expression of "good will" on
> the part of vassals and the people? The role-playing definition of RPs doesn't
> seem to do much to differentiate RPs from a list of favors that could be owed to
> anyone, blooded or unblooded.
>
> On another thread we've been discussing the merits of blooded v. unblooded
> regents and the general consensus seems to be that an unblooded character could
> rule, but would be much less effective than a blooded one. So less effective,
> in fact, that his/her rule would probably be short-lived, because s/he has no
> tie to the land and cannot use RPs to the advantage of his/her rule.
>
> >From this I gather that RPs must actually be a kind of energy that the Regent
> can use at his/her discretion. RPs are the psychic forces created by the
> collective good will, belief, confidence, hopes and desires of the people in a
> domain which is gathered and transferred by the land to its ruler through the
> strength of his/her bloodline.
>
> If RPs are simply "favors" called in by a ruler then how could s/he internalize
> them in order to strengthen his/her own bloodline? How could they be saved up?
> Have you ever moved? Try calling in the favors of all the people you've helped
> moved in the past. Many of them have long since forgotten that they owed you
> one. Favors have a shelf life, RPs do not.
>
> Once RPs are transferred from a vassal to a Regent, they should stay transferred
> unless the Regent chooses for some reason to give them back, dies without an
> heir or is killed by bloodtheft by someone using a Tighmievral weapon (at which
> point they fizzle off into the atmosphere, or are absorbed and internalized by
> the bloodthief.)
>
> -G.
>
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Gary V. Foss]

relve@Otdk.Helsinki.FI wrote:

> I fully agree with Gary. RP's must be more "tangible" otherwise the
> "domain rules" would seem illogical. For example: RP's can be saved
> and used even 100 years later in another part of Cerilia. If the
> Regency reflected only a person's popularity or influence in certain
> society, it would be impossible to do so.
>
> Kaarel

Thank God, I thought no one was listening for a minute....

To continue the argument: I just bought the Tuarhieval sourcebook in which we are
presented with the transfer of bloodline from Fhileraene to Savane, a highly unpopular
move. Quite a lot of the information details how difficult it will be for Savane to
deal with her lack of support from the royal houses, elves, etc. of her realm.

Yet she has all of Fileraene's RPs. They didn't vanish when the people learned of the
transfer of power. She gets to keep them. Presumably she gets to transfer them when
her daughter comes of age or Fileraene returns. If RPs were just favors, oaths and
promises then they would pretty much have vanished when Savane became ruler of the
realm, right? They didn't because RPs are quantifiable and tangible to a regent with
a bloodline.

- -G.

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

- ----- Begin Included Message -----
>
> But how do you ask for the RP?
> Lord: "So it's agreed upon your Oath of Vassalage that you will pay me the
> sum of 2 Gold Bars in currency of the Realm, chattel or sundries and 5 RP"
> Vassal: " Yes m'Lord, but what is an RP?"

I just assume that it's a bit of a handwave - players refer to RPs, to
keep the game simple while characters horsetrade more specific favours
or oaths of support. I don't allow RPs to be traded except through an
Oath of Vassalage, and the strength of the oath would determine how many
RPs are transferred.

The nice thing about this system is that characters never refer to RPS
in game, and it hinders the ability of pcs to cooperate.

neil

- ----- End Included Message -----

IMO asking "What's an RP?" is a lot like asking "What's an EP?" Experience
points and Regency points are a game mechanic for tracking an intangible asset.

I regard RP mostly as influence/dedication/reputation/knowledge with a little
mysticism thrown in. Much like EP, intangible Regency has a very real effect
on the tangible world. Characters with lots of EP hack things up better (or lobspells better or whatever...). Character with lots of RP get things done.
They're wise, respected rulers with the knowledge and dedication to complete
challenging tasks.

Asking for RP in roleplaying terms could take many forms. A demand for military
service, speeches/stumping, appointment to a certain office, rights to
administer certain types of justice (big in the RW), an agreement to work in
the counting house a certain number of hours each week, etc etc.

It would aid in roleplaying if we could develop guidelines as to how many RP
(or what % RP) certain actions are worth.

Giving a speech at the Laborers Guild Auxilary lunch meeting: 1 RP
Becoming the personal herald and body servent of one's leige: a high % of RP
Being named Marshal of Anuire:50 RP

Note these could work in either direction. Working as a herald/bodyservant
could demand a large percentage of one's attention and effort, but if the liege
chooses the herald could speak with the authority of the lord, letting the lord
transfer RPs to this loyal and trusted retainer.

Magic throws a kink in this nice Randaxian vision. Since it has no counterpart
in the RW, it's much harder to define how a wizard regent can use the power of
the land to cast realm magic. This is why, dispite what I said above, I'm still
somewhat undecided as to the tangibility of RP. Wizards get their RP directly
from a mystical connection to the land, not people. Perhaps one could say the
wizards RP stem more from the knowledge part of regency as opposed to the
influence portion.

Randax

[Gary V. Foss]

Randall W. Porter@6550 wrote:

> Magic throws a kink in this nice Randaxian vision. Since it has no counterpart
> in the RW, it's much harder to define how a wizard regent can use the power of
> the land to cast realm magic. This is why, dispite what I said above, I'm still
> somewhat undecided as to the tangibility of RP. Wizards get their RP directly
> from a mystical connection to the land, not people. Perhaps one could say the
> wizards RP stem more from the knowledge part of regency as opposed to the
> influence portion.

Well, the operative power in the collection of RPs is the land itself. The RPs collected by mages would be a more direct transferal of power rather than one
based upon a collection of energy from the population. The source (pun, pun) of that energy might be a little different, but the end effect as far as the
blooded Regent is concerned is the same.

As for how it would be transferred: We needn't worry about RPs being like some nebulous cloud hovering around a Regent's head. It's a form of psychic
energy. The points could be transferred just by a few moments of concentration or as part of a ritual obeisance that takes place every domain turn. It can
be as simple or complex as DMs/players like. The transfer could take the form of a speech or favor, as other people have suggested, if one feels the need to
role-play it out. My point is that there has to be some sort of non-corporeal aspect to it that actually supercedes all that.

- -G.

[Anthony K.G.Shewan]

An excellent explanation! I like this a lot and has gone a long way to
helping clear up some of my confusion on the subject. However where you
state "Shouldn't regents be able to sense RPs? " I hope you mean sense
their own RP and not other Regents'.

Regards
Anthony

> > Wait. Shouldn't regents be able to sense RPs? Shouldn't they be a
tangible
> > thing that they can manipulate, rather than just an expression of "good
will" on
> > the part of vassals and the people? The role-playing definition of RPs
doesn't
> > seem to do much to differentiate RPs from a list of favors that could
be owed to
> > anyone, blooded or unblooded.
> >
> > On another thread we've been discussing the merits of blooded v.
unblooded
> > regents and the general consensus seems to be that an unblooded
character could
> > rule, but would be much less effective than a blooded one. So less
effective,
> > in fact, that his/her rule would probably be short-lived, because s/he
has no
> > tie to the land and cannot use RPs to the advantage of his/her rule.
> >
> > >From this I gather that RPs must actually be a kind of energy that the
Regent
> > can use at his/her discretion. RPs are the psychic forces created by
the
> > collective good will, belief, confidence, hopes and desires of the
people in a
> > domain which is gathered and transferred by the land to its ruler
through the
> > strength of his/her bloodline.
> >
> > If RPs are simply "favors" called in by a ruler then how could s/he
internalize
> > them in order to strengthen his/her own bloodline? How could they be
saved up?
> > Have you ever moved? Try calling in the favors of all the people
you've helped
> > moved in the past. Many of them have long since forgotten that they
owed you
> > one. Favors have a shelf life, RPs do not.
> >
> > Once RPs are transferred from a vassal to a Regent, they should stay
transferred
> > unless the Regent chooses for some reason to give them back, dies
without an
> > heir or is killed by bloodtheft by someone using a Tighmievral weapon
(at which
> > point they fizzle off into the atmosphere, or are absorbed and
internalized by
> > the bloodthief.)
> >
> > -G.
> >
> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
> >
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[Anthony K.G.Shewan]

Another excellent explanation! Thank you

Regards
Anthony

- ----------
> From: Randall W. Porter@6550
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Birthright: Regency points
> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 3:15 PM
>
> IMO asking "What's an RP?" is a lot like asking "What's an EP?"
Experience
> points and Regency points are a game mechanic for tracking an intangible
asset.
>
> I regard RP mostly as influence/dedication/reputation/knowledge with a
little
> mysticism thrown in. Much like EP, intangible Regency has a very real
effect
> on the tangible world. Characters with lots of EP hack things up better
(or lobspells better or whatever...). Character with lots of RP get things
done.
> They're wise, respected rulers with the knowledge and dedication to
complete
> challenging tasks.
>
> Asking for RP in roleplaying terms could take many forms. A demand for
military
> service, speeches/stumping, appointment to a certain office, rights to
> administer certain types of justice (big in the RW), an agreement to work
in
> the counting house a certain number of hours each week, etc etc.
>
> It would aid in roleplaying if we could develop guidelines as to how many
RP
> (or what % RP) certain actions are worth.
>
> Giving a speech at the Laborers Guild Auxilary lunch meeting: 1 RP
> Becoming the personal herald and body servent of one's leige: a high % of
RP
> Being named Marshal of Anuire:50 RP
>
> Note these could work in either direction. Working as a
herald/bodyservant
> could demand a large percentage of one's attention and effort, but if the
liege
> chooses the herald could speak with the authority of the lord, letting
the lord
> transfer RPs to this loyal and trusted retainer.
>
> Magic throws a kink in this nice Randaxian vision. Since it has no
counterpart
> in the RW, it's much harder to define how a wizard regent can use the
power of
> the land to cast realm magic. This is why, dispite what I said above,
I'm still
> somewhat undecided as to the tangibility of RP. Wizards get their RP
directly
> from a mystical connection to the land, not people. Perhaps one could
say the
> wizards RP stem more from the knowledge part of regency as opposed to the

> influence portion.
>
> Randax
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[Gary V. Foss]

Anthony K.G.Shewan wrote:

> An excellent explanation! I like this a lot and has gone a long way to
> helping clear up some of my confusion on the subject. However where you
> state "Shouldn't regents be able to sense RPs? " I hope you mean sense
> their own RP and not other Regents'.

Yes, that's what I mean. Though I suppose it wouldn't be that ridiculous for
blooded characters to be able to sense a lot of power in the room when a
blooded character walked in. I think that would have to be a spell or seperate
blood ability, though. I'm not so sure a character without Divine Aura should
give off an aura just because of the accumulation of RPs.

- -G.