pre-deismar anaemia

[rad smith]

okay, so we've established the rules take on unblooded regents.

but.

how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?

they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)

- --
rad

i've got my hand in your head
i've got my hand in your head
and i'm pulling out all of your mind

[Gary V. Foss]

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rad smith wrote:

> okay, so we've established the rules take on unblooded regents.
>
> but.
>
> how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?
>
> they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)

Having control of Law holdings pretty much puts one in control of a province.
Since nonblooded characters cannot collect RPs they wouldn't really care
whether they have some divine connection to the land, right? Before Deismar
there would have been no connection to the land in the same way that it exists
post-Deismar, so rulership would have been more of a de facto thing rather than
a deDeismar thing.

As far as the how of how they ruled, I kind of like the idea that regents could
still do realm actions, but at a much slower rate than post-Deismar rulers.
Perhaps it would take them a Domain Round to do what a blooded regent could do
in an Action Round.

It might give the Birthright setting a little more universality in the AD&D
universe if the rulership aspect of the game was translatable into other
campaigns. This could potentially evolve into an aspect of the game that
players would eventually want to explore when their characters reach a point of
controlling the equivalent of "holdings" in whatever campaign world they are
in.

What do you all think?

- -G

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rad smith wrote:
okay, so we've established the rules take on unblooded
regents.

but.

how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?

they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)
Having control of Law holdings pretty much puts one in control of a province. 
Since nonblooded characters cannot collect RPs they wouldn't really care
whether they have some divine connection to the land, right?  Before
Deismar there would have been no connection to the land in the same way
that it exists post-Deismar, so rulership would have been more of a de
facto thing rather than a deDeismar thing.

As far as the how of how they ruled, I kind of like the idea
that regents could still do realm actions, but at a much slower rate than
post-Deismar rulers.  Perhaps it would take them a Domain Round to
do what a blooded regent could do in an Action Round.

It might give the Birthright setting a little more universality in the
AD&D universe if the rulership aspect of the game was translatable
into other campaigns.  This could potentially evolve into an aspect
of the game that players would eventually want to explore when their characters
reach a point of controlling the equivalent of "holdings" in whatever campaign
world they are in.

What do you all think?

-G

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[Sythryc]

they were probably the choice of the people and who is to say they were not
the land's choice as well?

[David Sean Brown]

As for the Pre-Deismaar rulers, wouldn't they have been the same as on any
other world? I mean, the whole idea of bloodlines came from the release
of the godly power at the time of the explosion, and I had always assumed
the land soaked up a good portion of this. That was sort of the tie the
blooded regents had with the land. I had always surmised that prior to
Deismaar, rulers were Kings, Lords, etc without any particular tie to the
land, and no link to their holdings beyond that of using them for their
base proposes (eg, Law to control criminal activity, etc)..

Just my opinion though..:)

Sean


On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, rad smith wrote:

>
> okay, so we've established the rules take on unblooded regents.
>
> but.
>
> how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?
>
> they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)
>
> --
> rad
>
> i've got my hand in your head
> i've got my hand in your head
> and i'm pulling out all of your mind
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Ed Stark]

At 10:07 AM 3/9/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>okay, so we've established the rules take on unblooded regents.
>
>but.
>
>how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?
>
>they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)
>

I think this has been discussed before, but let me go with my OPINION (not
to be confused with an official stance on the matter).

It's my belief that characters CAN be regents without bloodlines. However,
it is much more difficult to accomplish anything without RP and a tie to
the land--or, in "real world" terms, it's much easier to accomplish tasks
with the advantages of a Cerilian regent.

Think about it. Using RP and the tie to the land makes realm actions
(actions any ruler of any land would have to accomplish to successfully
rule a kingdom or empire) pretty darn easy. Just spend enough RP, invoke
the tie to the land to take a domain action and you've got a pretty good
chance of succeeding.

Non-blooded regents would have to "roleplay" every one of those actions
out, or assign them to trusted vassals/lieutenants/servants to accomplish
EVERY TIME--and the actions would have to be much more "up close and
personal." Negotiations, strategy sessions, and even adventuring would be
necessary for a nonblooded leader to establish himself/herself and get
anything done. Cerilians are used to the efficiency and speed of bloodlines
and RP expenditure--they'd be overwhelmed otherwise.

That's my opinion, anyway.

-- ->-- ->-- ->--@
Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com
(soon to be http://www.tsr.com)

[Samuel Weiss]

They could develop level 1 holdings. That is more than enough to conrtol
your tribal group. For larger regions, it just means there were several
competing local lords. I do not see a problem with that. And if theri heirs
needed to rebuild the holdings from the ground up because there was no wasy
to cast investiture, that would be fine too. Quite historical really.

Samwise

[E Gray]

- -----Original Message-----
From: rad smith
To: birthright
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 8:13 PM
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - pre-deismar anaemia



>how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?


Poorly? I don't know, maybe some ceremony like was
done in Mercedes Lackey's third book of the Mage Storms
Trilogy?

>they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)


If you asked me, use of "the land" as a singular is a bad
idea, seems like it is a bit schizophrenic.

[Anthony K.G.Shewan]

> okay, so we've established the rules take on unblooded regents.
> but.
> how did people manage to rule kingdoms before deismar?
> they can't /all/ have been the land's choice ;-)
> --
> rad

I have always thought "Blood", Bloodlines, investiture, "Regency", etc.
didn't exist pre-Deismar (sp.). Before the Battle of the Gods and their
destruction, Aberynis (sp.) was an ordinary place like any other plane in
the AD&D genre.
Regards,
Anthony

[Bret W. Davenport]

Gary V. Foss, David Sean Brown and others all said this excellently.
Pre-Deismar Cerilea would have been simple AD&D (being that BR
is a product of TSR -grin-)...

Also, as far as elves being so great, I still think people are wrong to
assume that just because all elves are "eligible" to use True Magic
and become Wizards, that they are. In fact, as the rule books state,
there are so very few who are, and that includes elves. Also, as
others have said, I have always believed a lot of elven magic comes
from the collection of the masses, not because every single elf can
walk around tossing out true magic spells like Sielwode Sweets.
Most are common Ranger/Warrior types with minor innate magic
abilities that are not going to alter the world or challenge the true
Wizards of Anuire...

But, to each their own.. =)

Bret