Unblooded regents: what about m

[John]

> Well, what do we do if we have an unblooded elven wizard that is a regent? Can he
> cast realm spell?

No, you need Source holdings to cast realm magic, and you need a
bloodline to have holdings.

John.

"Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
different universe."
"And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
"No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
- David Gemmel, Waylander

[James Ruhland]

> Well, what do we do if we have an unblooded elven wizard that is a
regent? Can he
> cast realm spell?
>
No, only blooded mages can cast Realm Spells, and that includes Elves and
Half-Elves. Unblooded elven (and half-elven) mages can cast Battle Magic
spells, though, as can Magicians (at least with regards to the spells they
normally have access to).

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Wed, 04 Mar 1998 18:22:16 -0500 FL writes:
>Well, what do we do if we have an unblooded elven wizard that is a
>regent? Can he
>cast realm spell?
>
>
>
>************************************************* **************************
>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
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absolutely not.

Karvenith

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[Espen Andre Johnsen]

>
> Well, what do we do if we have an unblooded elven wizard that is a regent? Can he
> cast realm spell?
>

I think yes...though I seem to be all alone on this subject. I don't remember
where it was written but it says in one book that there are old ley-lines that existed
before Deismaar all around Cerillia. And at that time only elves could have any use for
them.

Just my 2GB.

Espen

[Sythryc]

no, realm spells require Blood

[James Ruhland]

>
> No, you need Source holdings to cast realm magic, and you need a
> bloodline to have holdings.
>
Hmmmn. . .the 2nd part of this statement I'm not sure about; you need a
Bloodline to collect Regency from Holdings, but I don't think you need a
Bloodline to have Holdings.
I could be wrong. . .now I'm getting confused.

Nap time. :)

[Bret W. Davenport]

Various Replies on this:

> I think yes...though I seem to be all alone on this subject. I don't remember
>where it was written but it says in one book that there are old ley-lines that existed
>before Deismaar all around Cerillia.And at that time only elves could have any use for>them.

I wish I knew where you read that =) It certainly would open up the possibility of debate.
However, when the gods were here and active, it could be thought that through their presence and
grace, realm spells and powers were granted. Much like in other AD&D lines.

>Hmmmn. . .the 2nd part of this statement I'm not sure about; you need a
>Bloodline to collect Regency from Holdings, but I don't think you need a
>Bloodline to have Holdings.
>I could be wrong. . .now I'm getting confused.

As the game exists, all NPCs with holdings or regency ARE blooded. Therefore, it's not too much a
leap of faith to say you have to be blooded to do so. In the interest of possibility, though, lets
consider what you'd need to do if you weren't blooded. To take a holding/regency, you'd have to be
either granted it through investiture or through domain actions. Well, if you aren't a regent of
some sort, you don't have domain actions. So that's out. However, Investiture is an interesting
possibility. Suppose a Blooded Regent were to "Invest" his holdings to a non-blooded. The essense
and all its benefits would be passed. So, then, what if a non-blooded character were to, through
force of arms or magic, be able to force this ceremony upon a Blooded person. In this case, I would
think all the holding, the blood powers, etc, would be passed on to the non-blooded (this also bring
to mind the use of the Tighmaevril).

As far as Realm Spells are considered, ONLY Blooded beings may gain Regency Points. ALL Realm
spells require Regancy to cast. That alone would prevent powers from being used. Not to mention
that you have to have appropriate Source Holdings, which are also beyond unblooded character's
reach.

Strictly speaking, though, I would say non-blooded characters could exhibit strength in an area.
Force of arms, command of soldiers, illegal organizations, etc. These could possibly alter and sway
the balance of power. However, the mystical powers from the land, and the ties to the Blooded
beings, would never be within their grasp while they remain unblooded themselves.

Now, I'd like to offer this as a suggestion to those unblooded players or curious on the subject. A
powerful evoker or commander might be able to conquer an area through force of magic, arms, trade,
etc. Now, the land and it's powers would not respond to him, but, these lands would certainly be
valuable to those of the blood. Perhaps, then, a regent could approach the unblooded with some
interesting options that could be explored. Such as:
1) Elevation to some form of position of power within the land in exchange for the domain the
character has influenced.
2) Investiture. There are so many possibilities here. For example, the blooded regent decides
that it would be worth an agreement with the unblooded where the unblooded gives up control of his
area to the regent, only to have it invested upon the unblooded through the priest ceremony so long
as the unblooded then swear fealty or vassalage to the blooded regent. Now, where the unblooded
character doesn't have Blood Strength, he or she IS gaining Regency points. In turn, that character
could spend the gained Regency Points (1) to get Blood Strength (1). They could repeat this process
for a while to continue to increase it. In this, they go from non-blooded to blooded and also gain
the ability to use blood powers and realm spells all through the efforts they produced during their
non-blooded years.

Well, anyway, there's some food for thought. I am interested to see what other might think of
the possibilities.

Bret

[James Ruhland]

>
>
> I wish I knew where you read that =) It certainly would open up the
possibility of debate.
>
Somewhere in the Book of Magecraft under Lay Lines it talks about ancient
lay lines that don't need to be maintained and can be taped by any mage who
can find & control access to them. these are the Lay Lines of the
pre-Desimar Elves that he is talking about.
>
> As the game exists, all NPCs with holdings or regency ARE blooded.
Therefore, it's not too much a
> leap of faith to say you have to be blooded to do so.

Hmmmn; this thread originally got started with someone asking about the
possiblity of a unblooded Kobold uniting the tribes and in effect becomeing
an (unblooded) Regent of a province or two. It was pointed out (sorry,
can't remember by who) that this was possible, but that the "commoner"
Kobold would be at a severe disadvantage if a blooded person came around
and decided to try and take over, and that in such an event the unblooded
Kobold might be better off becoming the Lt of the blooded dude, even if he
had done all the work to create the realm.
Also, Cerilia isn't all of Aberynis (sp?); on Cerilia where Blooded scions
are (relatively) common, they displaced all the unblooded rulers (think of
it in ecological terms, with the "fitest" pushing out the less fit).
Elsewhere unblooded regents are probably the rule rather than the exception
(see the BR Netbook for rules on unblooded regents).

A side question that has always troubled me & that you touched upon: Since
you have to be Blooded to collect RPs & cast Realm Spells, what did the
pre-Desimar Elves DO with these Lay Lines?

Could be that:

1) Pre-Desimar the world operated under different natural/magical "Laws"
and Realm Spells were cast in different ways (I.E. not one mage using
Bloodline Points to power the spell, but perhaps ritual Sorcery involving
teams of Elven mages, or Blood Magic (sacrifices to power the Lay Line. .
.don't be so agast; if it's good enough for Celtic Druids it's good enough
for your nature loving Elves, too.), or just the power of nature if you
granola types prefer and don't want to imagine your leaf-eaters with blood
all over their garments. . .

2) Using the "unblooded regent" rules or a variant of it, pre-Deismar Elven
Spellcasters could accumulate RPs at a reduced rate. Which wouldn't be so
bad when you consider how much of Cerilia was covered in Old Growth Forest*
back then; so there was a lot more Source RP potential, and it didn't
matter as much if only a fraction could be tapped. Now that the forests are
disapearing, even the Elves allow only Blooded mages to tap the sources,
because they have to get as much bang out of them as possible (I.E. need to
be more efficient. . .at least they learned SOMETHING from the humans,
then.)

*All capitalized to show just how much we respect you tree-hugger types.
*G*

3) Perhaps only "exceptional" individuals (and, say, Dragons) could use
these ancient lay lines. In effect they would have been "Blooded", but
there's no indication of anyone like that pre-Desimar.

4) Something else I haven't thought of. There's always a bunch of wacky
ideas that are possible. I think of thouse. Other folks will come up with
the practical ones.

[Bret W. Davenport]

Funny, I wrote this then realized there was an obvious flaw:
>>
that it would be worth an agreement with the unblooded where the unblooded gives up control of his
area
to the regent, only to have it invested upon the unblooded through the priest ceremony so long as
the
unblooded then swear fealty or vassalage to the blooded regent. Now, where the unblooded character
doesn't have Blood Strength, he or she IS gaining Regency points. In turn, that character could
spend
the gained Regency Points (1) to get Blood Strength (1). They could repeat this process for a while
to
continue to increase it. In this, they go from non-blooded to blooded and also gain the ability to
use
blood powers and realm spells all through the efforts they produced during their non-blooded years.

[Jim Cooper]

Bret W. Davenport wrote:
>
> Various Replies on this:
>
> > I think yes...though I seem to be all alone on this subject. I don't remember
> >where it was written but it says in one book that there are old ley-lines that existed
> >before Deismaar all around Cerillia.And at that time only elves could have any use for>them.
>
> I wish I knew where you read that =) It certainly would open up the possibility of debate.

The matter is discussed in the BoM, where they discuss ley lines
(chapter 4).

Darren