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Thread: Unblooded regents
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03-05-1998, 08:40 PM #11Brandon QuinaGuest
Unblooded regents
> Why wouldn't the kobold leader get a priest lackey to invest the poor
> saps bloodline into himself, then kill the pesky upstart?
My view is that unblooded people can rule holdings. Blooded people
can just do it better. So much better that, no matter what, the
odds are HEAVILY in favor of the blooded person winning any contest
against an unblooded ruler.
Just for funs sake, I have rules for this. I never intend to use
them, but you never know.
Anyways, Mr. Kobold ruler could get law and province holdings. He
would just be practically unable to protect them from any blooded
people who wanted to take them.
Also, while being blooded dosnt make one a good leader automatically.
It /does/ help, afterall. You can spend regency points to affect
your leadership rolls :)
- --
(lore@tmgbbs.com) \|/// Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Brandon Lance Quina (- -)
ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo---
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03-05-1998, 08:43 PM #12James RuhlandGuest
Unblooded regents
>
> >> "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
> > Who watches the watchers (roughly). I like it.
> "Who watches the watchmen"
> Thanks. Here's a new one for you.
>
Can also be translated as "Who shall guard the guards themselves?", which
is how I saw it translated in relationship to the old I.R.I.S. motto
"Custodemus Veritas" (We Guard the Truth).
Just makes me think of Strephon every time, as does the phrase "Shall Not
Perish" now. . .(sorry, some game experiences, like some literary
experiences, never go away).
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03-05-1998, 09:30 PM #13Jim CooperGuest
Unblooded regents
Brandon Quina wrote:
>
> > Why wouldn't the kobold leader get a priest lackey to invest the poor
> > saps bloodline into himself, then kill the pesky upstart?
>
> My view is that unblooded people can rule holdings. Blooded people
> can just do it better. So much better that, no matter what, the
> odds are HEAVILY in favor of the blooded person winning any contest
> against an unblooded ruler.
>
Oh, and what happens when said unblooded ruler marches armies in said
blooded regent's domain, thereby contesting the little blooded
lordling's holding(s)? End result, the blooded regent is on par now
with the unblooded ruler! The guy has no advantage now, does he? :-0
Darren
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03-06-1998, 02:35 PM #14gandalfGuest
Unblooded regents
>This might explain the 'Michael Roele' phenomenon - the land 'grabbed'
>his essense before The Gorgon could steal it. Maybe this is what
>happens to all failed attempts at bloodtheft - the land sucks them up
>into itself. I mean, where else does it go?
Just a question - just how many 'failed attempts at bloodtheft' would you
know of?
gandalf
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03-06-1998, 03:22 PM #15Bret W. DavenportGuest
Unblooded Regents
> And perhaps the regent doesn't actually _receive_ the regency points -
> those people or holdings that he/she rules might actually be the
> 'vessel' that contains the influence (ie regency points) with which the
> regent 'uses' to advance the cause(s) of his/her domain. So, in effect,
> there could be no real connection to land and/or holding(s).
>
> Yes they can move around, in this mixed up world of Aebrynnis, a world
> where there is a loose feudal structure but it really isn't feudalism -
> that's why someone who only controls armies is still considered a
> regent, and in effect, has 'law holdings' in which to influence his
> surroundings (and if blooded, should get regency IMO for leading these
> armies).
>According to the rules, ruling a holding up to level '1' (or creating>one, for that matter) only
requires cold hard cash; so, nothing is
>stopping a non-blooded being from having actual level holdings.
Actually, to rule a Level 0 holding to Level 1 requires 1 GB and 1 RP. Unblooded characters can't
gain Regency Points, so that makes any holding past 0 - true show of strength - impossible. Unless,
of course, some rules after the boxed set have altered the original.
>Remember that one does not need to have had ancestors at the BoD;
>the BR team gave DMs a way out by giving us a special rule called 'The
>Lands Choice', that allows anyone to gain regency points, at any point
>in their lives.
One of the disadvantages to living somewhere where getting all material on a subject is nearly
impossible is that supplements and accessories are hard to come by. Where is the "Lands Choice"
rules laid out? Sounds like an interesting concept.
> Seriously, maybe the domain action of investiture is just a ceremony
> perpetuated by priests to continue a perceived role in Anuirean (or
> other) society. Religion is a strong influence in societies after all.
> Maybe there is no _real_ signifigance; perhaps it is the law regents who
> have been led by priests to believe that this ceremony is necessary to
> rule ... maybe one doesn't actually *need* this ceremony to be done, and
> that explains why guild and source regents don't need to have the
> ceremony performed on themselves. Remember that the land itself is
> quite capable of making a regent in one fell swoop, no fancy ceremony or
> nothing!
There must be some serious changes or alteration in rules after the boxed set through some of the
supliments. In the Ilien sourcebook, the dying regent "Invests" his powers and ties to the sources
to his apprentice. And from my understanding of the rules, you need Regency points or must rely on
just a 10% chance to invest a holding (guild and source included) which could be bid against making
it even less likely. Still, through the normal rules, I have yet to see where one mage can pass
another mage all his sources and bloodline strength without the Investiture Ceremony.
>And perhaps the regent doesn't actually _receive_ the regency points -
>those people or holdings that he/she rules might actually be the
>'vessel' that contains the influence (ie regency points) with which the
>regent 'uses' to advance the cause(s) of his/her domain. So, in effect,
>there could be no real connection to land and/or holding(s).
I would think you have it backwards. The Regent does gain and hold the power. Consider source
holdings, where you could have lands with basically no society or people. As far as power moving
with the people, I think it's not so much that but that a leader of a Providence-0 would have no
law, temple, guild to rule because you need subjects to rule with it. Therefore, the move would be
one of necessity by the regent rather than actual power within the populous.
But, again, I am new to this list, and could be ignorant on a number of subjects. It would be the
first time -g-
Bret
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03-06-1998, 04:12 PM #16Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Unblooded regents
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:
> Why wouldn't the kobold leader get a priest lackey to invest the poor
> saps bloodline into himself, then kill the pesky upstart?
>
> I mean, being blooded doesn't necessarily translate to leadership roles,
> or give one a sure fire ticket to lord it over others.
No, it doesn't necessarily, but its a HUGE head start. In role playing
terms, I've always ruled that blooded people have a PRESENCE about them
that is very impressive. It may not be instantly noticeable, but people
around them respond to them differently. They have an aura of AUTHORITY
about them that subtly acts on the minds of unblooded people around them,
evoking respect and obedience. So an unblooded merchant in a chance
meeting with a mysterious stranger at an oasis suddenly finds himself
taking orders from the stranger when bandits attack, obeying without
question when told to take his guards around to one side of the enclosure,
and perhaps wondering why he submitted to the authority of that mysterious
stranger so readily, when he commanded no troops nor wielded any magick.
As for the kobold, if the poor sap was smart enough he wouldn't
let himself get into such a position, and if he was truely interested in
manipulating the kobold tribe and the current ruler wasn't on friendly
terms, he might just find a replacement what WAS willing to be his lackey,
and then kill the current leader and put his lackey in place. The kobolds
are in fact more like to accept the new leader if the theif, who is
blooded and thus has this aura of authority, obviously and before the
whole tribe, supports the new leader: his acceptance lends the weight of
his authority to the appointment (however unlawful it might be in
reality). Not that this should be a sure-fire or fool-proof plan.
Eventually the kobolds will realize that they've been played. But it will
last longer if the blooded theif sticks around and reinforces the
authority, or if he shows up every once in a while to maintain it. And
after a while, if they've been treated well, the tribe may just decide
that change is good, and stick with a good thing even though they know it
to be somewhat unnatural.
A bit of a long ramble about something fairly inconsequential,
perhaps, but from this perspective do you see what I'm getting at? You are
af course perfectly free to interpret things in your own way, but I
thought I should explain my perspective.
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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03-06-1998, 04:42 PM #17Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Unblooded regents
On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:
> Oh, and what happens when said unblooded ruler marches armies in said
> blooded regent's domain, thereby contesting the little blooded
> lordling's holding(s)? End result, the blooded regent is on par now
> with the unblooded ruler! The guy has no advantage now, does he? :-0
Yes, but once again, there's nothing stopping the blooded ruler from
raising an army of his own, and fighting off the unblooded ruler's armies.
May I ask what your stake in having unblooded rulers is? Because you
certainly seem dedicated to rescueing them from the tyrrany of the rules.
Not that this is necessarily a bad thing! But if we knew WHY you wanted to
have and maintain unblooded rulers in Cerillia, we might be able to help
you better. :)
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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03-06-1998, 08:35 PM #18brenda santerGuest
Unblooded Regents
Bret Davenport wrote:
>Actually, to rule a Level 0 holding to Level 1 requires 1 GB and 1 RP.
>Unblooded characters can't
>gain Regency Points, so that makes any holding past 0 - true show of
>strength - impossible. Unless,
>of course, some rules after the boxed set have altered the original.
>
Sorry Bret. You better recheck the Rules book fromthe original boxed set.
The rule on page 59 states that ruling a province or holding from level 0
to level 1 costs 1 GB, but no RP. The reason I am aware of that is because
have been doing it your way until about 3 months ago. At that time, another
DM pointed the rule out to me.
>>Remember that one does not need to have had ancestors at the BoD;
>>the BR team gave DMs a way out by giving us a special rule called 'The
>>Lands Choice', that allows anyone to gain regency points, at any point
>>in their lives.
>
>One of the disadvantages to living somewhere where getting all material on
>a subject is nearly
>impossible is that supplements and accessories are hard to come by. Where
>is the "Lands Choice"
>rules laid out? Sounds like an interesting concept.
>
The Land's Choice is found in that excellent resource, the Book of Priestcraft.
When you are able to purchase one, definitely do so. It is worth every
penny even at the rate my Canadian dollar is at right now :).
>
>But, again, I am new to this list, and could be ignorant on a number of
>subjects. It would be the
>first time -g-
>
>Bret
>
Stick around this list for a while. There are many talented, helpful and
creative people here to help you out. This is a great place to get ideas
and information from.
****************************************
Brenda Santer:
mailto:bsanter@shaw.wave.ca
I USED TO BE SNOW WHITE BUT I DRIFTED!
****************************************
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03-06-1998, 08:54 PM #19Bret W. DavenportGuest
Unblooded Regents
> Sorry Bret. You better recheck the Rules book fromthe original boxed set.
> The rule on page 59 states that ruling a province or holding from level 0
> to level 1 costs 1 GB, but no RP. The reason I am aware of that is because
> have been doing it your way until about 3 months ago. At that time, another
> DM pointed the rule out to me.
Okay. Directly from Page 59 of the Rulebook (Boxed Addition):
RULE Success: 10+
Type: Domain, Realm Base Cost: 1GP, Variable RP
With this action, a regent spends time and energy advancing the causes of his domain. By
ruling, he can increate a province or holding's level by 1. A province can be ruled only once per
domain turn.
Note that for a regent to increase a holding, a level must be vacant; if he controls a guild(3)
in a province(3), the province can't support any more guild activity.
Ruling a holding costs 1 Gold Bar PLUS Regency points equal to the target level; for example a
guild(3) to a guild(4) costs 1 GB plus 4 RP.
...etc...
Okay. Read that carefully. It is the TARGET LEVEL that determines the cost. Thus, a Guild(0) to
Guild(1) would cost 1 GB plus 1 RP; Guild(1) to Guild(2) would be 1 GB+2 RP;Guild(2) to Guild(3) is
1 GB + 3 RP; etc... Just as in the example above =)
I may be new, but the rules are fairly clear in this...
Note, however, that Ruling a PROVINCE level costs 1 GB plus 1 RP per level based on the Provinces
Current level. Thus, a Province(0) to Province(1) would cost 1 GB+ 0 RP. The same does not hold
true for holding, though.. Thus the confusion. A subtle but important distinction.
So, with the old arguments, a non-blooded could form a Holding only to 0, but could move a Province
to 1.
> The Land's Choice is found in that excellent resource, the Book of Priestcraft.
> When you are able to purchase one, definitely do so. It is worth every
> penny even at the rate my Canadian dollar is at right now :).
I will take your advise and keep my eye out. Thanks Brenda.
> >But, again, I am new to this list, and could be ignorant on a number of
> >subjects. It would be the
> >first time -g-
Oops! It definately WOULDN'T be the first time -chuckle- What a typo -g-
> Stick around this list for a while. There are many talented, helpful and
> creative people here to help you out. This is a great place to get ideas
> and information from.
It has already been a treat =)
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03-06-1998, 09:15 PM #20TrippGuest
Unblooded Regents
brenda santer wrote:
>
> Stick around this list for a while. There are many talented, helpful and
> creative people here to help you out. This is a great place to get ideas
> and information from.
>
> ****************************************
> Brenda Santer:
>
> mailto:bsanter@shaw.wave.ca
>
> I USED TO BE SNOW WHITE BUT I DRIFTED!
> ****************************************
Bret, you lucked out, you already met one of the lists most talented and
helpful ::drum roll:: Brenda Santer of Canada.
Just my 2GB
Tripp
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