Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Neil Barnes
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, J. D. Lail wrote:
    > Something that has been bothering me for sometime is the existance
    > of the Magian. This mage becomes a Lich using only the spells of
    > that class. Assuming Blood Enemies is correct he came to Cerilia
    > Unblooded. To reiterate, in order to cast the spells needed to become
    > a Lich he should be blooded, he wasn't, big contradiction, how did he
    > do it ?

    Is this going to prompt an evil grin from Carrie or Ed?

    I'd imagine there's all sorts of nasty stuff in the Magian's history.
    AFAIK he comes from Djapar, and the Basarji were also fleeing from the
    Shadow, it's a safe bet that Djapar isn't a very nice place anymore.
    There's probably all sorts of gribbly stuff going on over there.

    > The only way I can think of is by an application of spell level
    > alteration rules. (See Jan 98 Dragon Magazine *)
    >
    > * I am very supportive of these "rules" since they duplicate almost exactly
    > my rules on the same subject done 16 years ago.

    I don't think they reflect the damage progression in mage spells very
    well - after third level the damage that I/E spells do plateaus for a
    good three to four levels. Instead of increasing the damage, mid-level
    invocation spells do damage in different ways (cold, damage over time,
    less effective saves.

    They're nice guildlines, but no substitute for thorough DM
    consideration. I wouldn't let a PC use them to justify a spell that I
    didn't approve of, but as working guidelines they're handy.

    neil

  2. #2
    CBebris@aol.co
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    In a message dated 98-02-24 09:58:23 EST, you write:

    Something that has been bothering me for sometime is the existance
    > of the Magian. This mage becomes a Lich using only the spells of
    > that class. Assuming Blood Enemies is correct he came to Cerilia
    > Unblooded. To reiterate, in order to cast the spells needed to become
    > a Lich he should be blooded, he wasn't, big contradiction, how did he
    > do it ?

    Is this going to prompt an evil grin from Carrie or Ed? >>

    Of course it is--and a booming, evil laugh to go with it :)

    CB

  3. #3
    prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    > Something that has been bothering me for sometime is the existance
    > > of the Magian. This mage becomes a Lich using only the spells of
    > > that class.

    To reiterate, in order to cast the spells needed to become
    > > a Lich he should be blooded, he wasn't, big contradiction, how did he
    > > do it ?


    Is this true? I've never "made" a lich before, but this stikes me as strange.
    If only the blooded can become lichs, how were they created in settings before
    BR? Ah wait, I get it now. He had to be blooded to be a true mage.

    Warped by Azrai, the Cold Rider or some artifact?

    self-answering Randax

  4. #4
    RocksHope@aol.co
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    Blooded Wizards aren't the only ones with the power to cast true magic. The
    elves have always been able to. Where there's two ways there's bound to be
    more, especially in foreign lands where the blood of the gods doesn't flow and
    offer such an 'easy' answer. Also, priests can become liches without casting
    true magic (such as mages know it).

    - -joshua

  5. #5
    gandalf
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    >In a message dated 98-02-24 09:58:23 EST, you write:
    >
    > Something that has been bothering me for sometime is the existance
    > > of the Magian. This mage becomes a Lich using only the spells of
    > > that class. Assuming Blood Enemies is correct he came to Cerilia
    > > Unblooded. To reiterate, in order to cast the spells needed to become
    > > a Lich he should be blooded, he wasn't, big contradiction, how did he
    > > do it ?


    If it says he was a Magician (definitely that, not just Mage) then I guess
    it is.
    But if it says he's a Mage, and he came to BR unblooded, who cares? Remember
    that mages in other worlds are not restrained by such petty details as
    blood. In terms of earlier 'magic' theories, I believe the 'all-surrounding
    energy that is magic' is there, just as in other worlds. The people of
    Cerilia are just ungifted, and do not know how to use it. Only blooded ones
    have the talent. If a character came from another world, and he could
    already master magic, why not tap into this planet's magical field? Sure, he
    would not be able to cast Realm Spells - not before a great deal of
    studying, that is. But I see no problem with him becoming a lich.

  6. #6
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    This question entered my head, too; and I knew/know that there'd be an
    answer behind it (one of the good things about the BR team is they don't
    leave continuity errors lying around. . .too much; not big ones like that,
    anyhow). I'm very. . .curious. .about what the answer will be *shudder*
    >
    > Something that has been bothering me for sometime is the existance
    > > of the Magian. This mage becomes a Lich using only the spells of
    > > that class. Assuming Blood Enemies is correct he came to Cerilia
    > > Unblooded. To reiterate, in order to cast the spells needed to become
    > > a Lich he should be blooded, he wasn't, big contradiction, how did he
    > > do it ?
    >
    > Is this going to prompt an evil grin from Carrie or Ed? >>
    >
    > Of course it is--and a booming, evil laugh to go with it :)
    >
    > CB
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  7. #7
    James Ray
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    In my own campaign, I interprate the Magian's origins in "Blood Enemies" to
    mean that he was already blooded before he came to Cerilia ("six years
    ago"), but in the process of slaying the former rulers of Pipryet, he
    increased his bloodline to its current total (19). The process of
    Boodtheft against the previoue rulers awakened the Magian's
    "Invulnerability" and "Major Resistance (s)" Blood abilities, making him
    even more powerful than the average Lich. But, then again - I always like
    to go for the solution that requires the least new rules and processes.

    If you like, use the process for creating "Vassaliches" detailed in "Van
    Richtens Guide to the Lich" - perhaps the Magian was once a servant to a
    more powerful Lich, who had forced a poor mortal spell-caster to perform
    the ritual for attaining Lichdom, and after the Magian manages to free
    himself, he starts his spell-casting career over, as a blooded Wizard (Im
    not sure exactly WHAT happens if a Magician becomes blooded later in his
    career, though, but at least it IS an exploitable grey area for your
    scenario).

    What *I* dont understand about the Magian, is why he didnt start his
    conquests in hius original home "Across the Sea of Dragons" hee hee hee
    The rulers over there must have been very near to giving the Magian a
    whoopin, i guess, and he decided it would be a good idea to look for
    greener pastures elsewhere in Aebrynis. :-)

    James
    - ----------
    > From: J. D. Lail
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard Pt. 2
    > Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 12:00 PM
    >
    > Something that has been bothering me for sometime is the existance
    > of the Magian. This mage becomes a Lich using only the spells of
    > that class. Assuming Blood Enemies is correct he came to Cerilia
    > Unblooded. To reiterate, in order to cast the spells needed to become
    > a Lich he should be blooded, he wasn't, big contradiction, how did he
    > do it ?
    >
    > The only way I can think of is by an application of spell level
    > alteration rules. (See Jan 98 Dragon Magazine *) Spell levels can be
    > lowered by; (1) Use of more expensive/rare material componets.
    > (2) Significantly longer casting times.
    > (3) Reduction of Range, Area Of Effect, Duration, or Saving
    > Throws.
    > If however you have another way to go Lich for The Magian and his merry
    > band of cuthroats I am open to suggestions. :)
    >
    > Here's an example of spell level lowering ; a Mage (NaW) researches a
    > fireball that has a Negates saving throw instead of 1/2 damage. This is
    > no longer a 3rd level spell. It is IMO 2nd. :(
    >
    > I have always assumed that cutting off all but illusion and divination
    > spells at 2nd level was done to give the mage some "real magic" but
    > not anything that was really dangerous. If this is not the case please
    > correct me.
    >
    > L8R
    >
    > * I am very supportive of these "rules" since they duplicate almost
    exactly
    > my rules on the same subject done 16 years ago.
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  8. #8
    bloebick@juno.com (Benja
    Guest

    [Birthright] - Mage vs Wizard P

    On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:16:01 -0600 "James Ray" writes:
    >
    >What *I* dont understand about the Magian, is why he didnt start his
    >conquests in hius original home "Across the Sea of Dragons" hee hee
    >hee
    >The rulers over there must have been very near to giving the Magian a
    >whoopin, i guess, and he decided it would be a good idea to look for
    >greener pastures elsewhere in Aebrynis. :-)
    >
    >James

    Why? Because he was a wimp over there, and got his butt kicked. He put
    his tail between his legs and ran off to beat up on some wimps. I'm
    running off to the shadow world if _his_ superiors show up. it would be
    safer.
    ;)


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