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02-11-1998, 08:28 PM #firstname.lastname@example.orgGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Once Again: Trade Routes
It was written:
> As a Player, when/if I rule provinces, I love to be able to quickly
> develop them. But I also understand that things can quickly get out of hand
> if not controled. A lot of players will practice self control. But in large
> games, especially PBeM games, a kind of "development race" can occur; if
> the guy over the border is showing no restraint, you're doomed if you hold
> yourself back. (A similar thing reciently happened with regards to Trade
> Routes realm actions, resulting in scores of TRs being created in one turn
> because no one wanted to loose the opportunity to someone else, and
> everyone wanted to maximize their cash potential as quickly as possible. I
> participated in that one, to the tune of 12 TRs attempted in one action, 10
> of which succeeded. . .)
Once again, this shows the inadequacey of the existing trade route rules. In
the interest of game balance (regarding the money making power of guilders vs
other regents) and common sense ("yeh, I've got 6 trade routes to the Imperial
City"- "yeh,yeh, me too"-- "and me. Don't forget about me."--etc etc) I once
again give you Randax's Trade Route rule.
1. Strictly enforce the # of trade routes per province rules.
2. Strictly enforce the difference in terrain type/culture rules.
3. Semi-strictly enforce the road rules. (I've allowed elves and orogs to haul
goods via mule train for a short distance or period of time)
4. Creation of a Trade Route requires a guild in both the originating and
terminal province. The guilds don't have to belong to the same organization, but both must agree to the creation of the route. The TR counts toward the
maximum allowed in both the originating and terminal provinces.
The Zhainge Merchant's Guild (ZMG) has guilds in both Mesire and Adaba. ZMG
creates a Trade Route between the two (assuming a slot available in each) with
out consulting anyone. Despite the RP expended by the Red Kings, ZMG is
successful and now has a TR generating (5+4)/2=5 GB per turn. Next turn Aftane
promptly shuts down the TR via decree. Time to roleplay! Negociate? (dip action)Adventure? Smuggling? (espionge action). IMC ZMG started out smuggling but got
tired of spending the action, to keep the reduced route (I allow smuggling in
this manner to generate 50-100% of the route's value minus the value of the law claim against it) producing. Eventually a trade agreement was negociated to
split the route's profits 3/2 ZMG/Red.
Parnial Bowspear owns the ships that ply the waves between Alber (Grabentod) and
the Gnollfells. Harlmut the Steward controls the guild in Alber and Ghus
Ghus Fearscorn controls the guild in the Fells. Needing the dark pine of the
Fells to build ships for their continuing war against Grevesmuhl and Muden, the
Grabers negociate a trade agreement that generates 1/1/1 GB for Harlmut/Bowspear/Ghus each turn. P Bowspear's ships haul the goods. The route counts against
the number allowed in each province. Note that here I reduced the value of the
route from 4 GB to 3 to account for the lack of proper port facilities in the
Fells- and broke the rules at the same time.
There's usually a lot of talk about how to achieve and maintain game
> ballance in this list, but it usually has to do with magic items and player
> races (I.E. the periodic upheavals about Elves), and few people seem
> concerned about how the use of actions, especially Rule and Realm type
> actions, can destabilize a game if moderation is not enforced. Usually a
> rule is the best way to enforce it in a fair fashion, because we all know
> (and some of us, yes, I'm a munckin at heart, are) powergammers and rules
> lawyers. If there's a rule, the DM can enforce it, fairly for everyone. If
> not, you have to count on the good behavior of all your players (show of
> hands among the DMs out there; who can *always* count on the good behavior
> of *all* their players, without using. . .er, encouragement tactics?
> Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?)
I'm willing to discuss Realm Actions anytime. I still haven't decided on the
Rule Province action, beyond making the success number 10+ desired level.
Lots of good ideas have been posted but I'm waffling.
02-12-1998, 08:36 AM #2James RuhlandGuest
[BIRTHRIGHT] -Once Again: Trade Routes
> 1. Strictly enforce the # of trade routes per province rules.
> 2. Strictly enforce the difference in terrain type/culture rules.
> 3. Semi-strictly enforce the road rules. (I've allowed elves and orogs to
> goods via mule train for a short distance or period of time)
These were all followed in the Route race I mentioned. In fact, the strict
adherance to these is one of the things that makes DMs pull their hair out;
is the TR legal for both provinces? Is there a slot available?
Terrain/ethnic rules followed? Lots of cross checking back and forth, as
well as a lot of bookeeping to make sure every TR is appropriately listed
under both provinces so that flaws don't occur in the future (I.E. "well,
it looked like there was a slot available, and you said it was ok, now you
say there isn't?" --whining player who made TR but now is informed there
was a bookeeping error and no slots actually existed).
> 4. Creation of a Trade Route requires a guild in both the originating and
> terminal province. The guilds don't have to belong to the same
organization, but both must agree to the creation of the route. The TR
counts toward the
> maximum allowed in both the originating and terminal provinces.
This is your house rule, I suppose. I'm pondering it. Most BR games have a
house rule that limits the total "in" TRs to the same number of "out" TRs
(I.E. a Province (4) on the coast can have 2 land TRs and 2 TRs originating
from it, and thus it can have 2 of each likewise having it as a
destination. Thus no 40 TRs to Anuire the City). Not sure about your "both
guilders" rule. Typically you need at least the aquicence of the ruler of
both provinces in order to create the route, anyhow. Unless the guilder in
the destination province controls the buyers (as opposed to sellers, which
is what guilds represent), I don't see how his/her approval/disaproval can
matter if the province's ruler does not oppose the TR. . .unless he wants
to be some kind of outlaw or rebel.
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