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  1. #1

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    > This is probably going to sound like a stupid question, but we have a rules
    > lawyer in the group and he won't shut up...
    >
    > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has the
    > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...
    > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's eyes
    > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's bloodline
    > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    > Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    > circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).
    >
    > Little help, please?

    Personally, I've always taken it to mean domestic cats.

    Rules lawyer, eh? I've got a little trick that copes with almost any
    kind of pain-in-the-a*** things like that (rules lawyering, people
    refusing to stop talking about a film they saw last night, etc.
    etc.). It's a little childish, but fun, and has turned into
    something of a catchphrase. It involves two stages:

    1) Threaten the person in question: "if you don't shut up you'll lose
    both legs."

    2) If they continue, gesture flamboyantly in their direction and say
    "Boom! Both your legs fall off!" Keep doing it to them and anyone
    else who joins in until they give up.

    I've a mate who has something similar -
    "That's it, your head explodes for being crap!"

    Birthright - a game for mature players
    ;-)

    John.
    "Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
    the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
    different universe."
    "And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
    "No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
    - David Gemmel, Waylander

  2. #2
    RazeDaemon@aol.co
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    This is probably going to sound like a stupid question, but we have a rules
    lawyer in the group and he won't shut up...

    A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has the
    power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...
    He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's eyes
    and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's bloodline
    means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).

    Little help, please?




    Raze


    - - Bake 'em away, toys...

    -Chief Wiggum

  3. #3
    David Sean Brown
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has the
    > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...
    > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's eyes
    > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's bloodline
    > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    > Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    > circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).

    I've always taken this to mean domestic sort of cats..not the larger wild
    cats...just sort of got that impression through reading other suppliments
    ...as well, Anduiras' totem is the Lion, nad in this case would sort of
    overlap..I wouldn't think this would make much sense, but that is just me


    Sean

  4. #4
    E Gray
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: RazeDaemon@aol.com
    To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 9:10 AM
    Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Brenna's Bloodline


    >This is probably going to sound like a stupid question, but we have a rules
    >lawyer in the group and he won't shut up...


    Oh no, it's not a stupid question..

    > Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...

    Well, see you let him do this...it's all YOUR fault.. }:+)

    >He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's
    eyes
    >and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's
    bloodline
    >means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat

    I'd say go ahead and let him....but keeping a panther is very very very very
    difficult...for one thing, think of how much meat they have to eat, then
    there's
    exercise, and who wants to wake up kitty? Or clean up after it?

    Drizzt had a magical cat with more than normal intelligence, this OTOH is
    the real thing, and you have every right to give the player a problem..

    >(even scions of
    >Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    >circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).


    Well, in that case no, as that would definitly be a case of supernatural
    powers..

  5. #5
    Sythryc@aol.co
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    wounds like the rule's lawyer would know that the DM has the power to bend the
    rules to suit his/her campaign. what the DM says goes. as an alternative you
    may rule how you like on what 'cats' are subject to the power. maybe tainted
    and minor are restricted to domestic cats, major and great bloodlines to
    include all 'cats'. it is ultimately up to you as the DM. also take into
    consideration that big cats are not always around or looking at what you want
    them to look at. and after long trips or just out of there own natural
    activity cycle, they (the cat) may want to take a nap at otherwise inoportune
    times for the owner. being a pet the panther is not a slave and personality
    as such could create problems, not to mention the city guards absolutely
    refusing to let such a creature roam free (a leash won't do they say, only a
    secure cage, or better yet, foreign countries may hold that 'cats' being the
    repected animal of Brenna, are not to be restrained by any means physical or
    magical, and the kitty can now run off on its own).

  6. #6
    Tripp
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    RazeDaemon@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > This is probably going to sound like a stupid question, but we have a rules
    > lawyer in the group and he won't shut up...
    >
    > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has the
    > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...
    > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's eyes
    > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's bloodline
    > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    > Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    > circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).
    >
    > Little help, please?
    >
    > Raze

    A cat, is a cat, is a cat. I interpret it as broadly as possible.

    Tripp

  7. #7
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    > > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has the
    > > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    > > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...
    > > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's eyes
    > > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's bloodline
    > > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    > > Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    > > circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).

    I have always taken this to mean domestic cats, as well. However, if your
    players are insistant on using it on the panther, remember a simple little
    rule: any increase in power, convenience or payoff must come at the
    expense of increased time, effort, or risk.
    Some options: as an ability of a tainted bloodline: it only
    affects one housecat; with a minor bloodline only familiar cats (know
    their "names"); as a major bloodline all house cats; as a great bloodline,
    all cats excluding lions. (And incidentally, if you did it this way, I
    would also let Anduiras' Animal Affinity expand to include all great
    cats).
    Or, house cats can be delt with automatically, but with great
    cats, their wild nature requires extra effort in concentration, either
    making the user enter a trance-state wherein he is vulnerable, or that
    there is a risk that the user becomes "caught up" in the bestial nature of
    the animal: he must make an INT roll before he can withdraw from the
    beast, and if he fails he remains linked with the beast for a certain
    amount of time, or else becomes bestial himself, and will seek to kill
    anyone around him (probably compansions). Or, if you're feeling really
    devious (and your players would enjoy this sort of thing) you could have
    him make a WIS ability check, and if he fails, he gets a Jeckyll/Hyde
    condition. Peasants in his kingdom start mysteriously dying, and he must
    investigate...and finds that he himself is the cause. A Heal spell will
    cure him, but he'll be extra careful when trying that trick again. I would
    probably only use this last one is he "merges" with the panther a lot.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  8. #8
    DKEvermore@aol.co
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    In a message dated 98-02-07 18:12:03 EST, you write:

    >
    > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has
    > the
    > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade
    ship...
    > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's
    eyes
    > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's
    > bloodline
    > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    > Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    > circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).
    >
    >
    Hm. In one of my campaigns this came up. I ruled that Brenna's affinity was
    with small cats (domestic, bob, etc.) and that Anduiras' affinity was with
    great cats. That was the line drew.

    - -DKE

  9. #9
    Bryan Ruther
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    RazeDaemon@aol.com wrote:

    > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has the
    > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you knew
    > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade ship...
    > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's eyes
    > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's bloodline
    > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat...

    Well, in Ruins of Empire, page 11, lower right, it mentions that the Baroness of
    Roesonehas the same blood ability. Because of this she has outlawed the harming
    of felines in her
    barony. That sounds a large number of types of cats... However, for my part, I
    would
    limit it to nothing bigger than say a bobcat. I say let him try to get overly
    friendly with his
    new pet, and then have it claw his face off....

    - -Bryan

    - --
    Mankind being originally equals in the order of creation,
    the equality could only be destroyed by some subsequent
    circumstance...
    Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  10. #10
    Tim Nutting
    Guest

    Brenna`s Bloodline

    > This is probably going to sound like a stupid question, but we have a
    rules
    > lawyer in the group and he won't shut up...

    Aren't they always like that? I've got one myself, and I've been slapped a
    couple of times by my current DM... been too long a DM myself I guess. :)

    > A character in our party has a bloodline derivated from Brenna... He has
    the
    > power to see through the eyes of cats (Animal Affinity... Im sure you
    knew
    > that)... Anyway, his character has purchased a panther from a trade
    ship...

    See that he cares for it properly, have any Eric follower make a fuss about
    him keeping an "obviously wild animal" (and therefore one of Eric's chosen
    favorites) give the regent troubles. Heck, make one of his lesser nobles
    an Eric follower (secretly) and take it up in court.

    > He, and the rules lawyer, believe that he can see through the panther's
    eyes
    > and such... The debate is whether the referance to cats in Brenna's
    bloodline
    > means domestic, small, housecat types or any sort of cat (even scions of
    > Andurias who can shapechange into lions, which I do not allow in any
    > circumstance, but they still believe they can do it).

    Okay, the rule is pretty vague, but it does specify that the character
    "...can see through the animal's eyes, summon it to his location, or relay
    information to it through mental communication." It says also that
    Brenna's totem animal was the cat. The only presented character that I am
    aware of that also has this ability is Marlae Roesone, and it says in her
    bio it says that "one of the Baroness' blood abilities allows her to see
    through the eyes of cats, thus it is a crime to harm felines..." and on.

    Hard put, there is not justification either way for either argument. As
    far as the scion of Anduiras is concerned... he is not a cat of any type
    he/she is still a human. The shape change spell changes the form and body,
    not the mind, of the character. Let that stick in the RL's craw. Your PC
    has this at Great ability level, right?

    The default decision is the DMs, always, even where "rules" may say
    otherwise. If you rules lawyer makes a fuss, punish him. Unfairly. One
    of my friends in a game started arguing proficiency acquisition with our
    current DM for a Greyhawk game (we're 1st edition freaks). The DM got
    pissed, said "Fine! You have just lost the 6th proficiency
    on you list." It shut up the player REAL quick.

    The DMs word is final, and while the above is by no means a standard method
    of argument resolution, when things get out of hand remind them that you
    are their gods. Anyone want to argue with Haelyn?

    Arguing rules and quoting scripture is fine. If you are comfortable enough
    with the rules to sufficiently argue with them, do so, find every loophole
    you can, and use EVERY rule you can on the lawyer. Read every spell he
    casts and examine it for loopholes against him.

    Otherwise make your own rules and stick to them. If you change a rule,
    note it and stand by it. Do not allow argument in the game. RL starts
    doing it, throw an assassin his way (find one from 1st edition... you know,
    with a 60% chance to automatically kill him ). I actually like
    by players to challenge my rules, but ONLY when we are not in game play.
    The session is NOT the time to do it.

    Hope some of this helps.

    Tim Nutting

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