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Thread: Very small parties in BR
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02-06-1998, 08:21 AM #1simong@mech.uwa.edu.auGuest
Very small parties in BR
Hi all,
The group that I play BR with is very small, only two players and me, the
DM. I have been playing BR with the players as powerful regents (never
played with high-level characters before), but we want to start a new game
with low-level PC's, letting them wander around a bit, then (maybe)
becoming regents in their own right. The players would like to do a bit of
city adventuring and good old-fashioned wandering. With the online city
project finally getting underway, I thought the Imperial City would be a
good place for the characters to start (or go to after a little while).
The problem I have is that I have no real experience with small groups, and
I can see them dying very easily. In addition, some character classes, like
Wizard and Priest are really almost a necessity in an adventuring party,
which makes things really difficult with only 2 PC's. As a DM, I like
having a spread of different abilities in the group. Of course, this is
just my preference.
One of the things I was thinking of doing is letting them run 2 characters
each, or gicing them more powerful bloodlines to make them a bit 'tougher'.
Has anyone else got any experience with very small parties in the
Birthright setting, both as adventurers and/or regents??
Any advice/comments would be appreciated. Thanx in advance,
Simon
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02-06-1998, 11:39 AM #2GeniverGuest
Very small parties in BR
As the DMiety, YOU control the level of opposition. You can make it as
easy or as hard as you want. You don't have to let them have two
characters. You can provide them with NPC sidekicks that YOU control.
Simon Graindorge wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> The group that I play BR with is very small...
>
> The problem I have is that I have no real experience with small groups, and
> I can see them dying very easily. In addition, some character classes, like
> Wizard and Priest are really almost a necessity in an adventuring party...
>
> Any advice/comments would be appreciated. Thanx in advance,
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02-06-1998, 05:05 PM #3James RuhlandGuest
Very small parties in BR
> Hi all,
>
> The group that I play BR with is very small, only two players and me, the
> DM. I have been playing BR with the players as powerful regents (never
> played with high-level characters before), but we want to start a new
game
> with low-level PC's, letting them wander around a bit, then (maybe)
> becoming regents in their own right.
>
> One of the things I was thinking of doing is letting them run 2
characters
> each, or gicing them more powerful bloodlines to make them a bit
'tougher'.
> Has anyone else got any experience with very small parties in the
> Birthright setting, both as adventurers and/or regents??
>
Common problem as you get older and everyone you play with goes to uni &
stuff. I've found henchmen can help make up the gap, especially if the
players are playing Mages n stuff, who need "bodyguard" types. Have both
player's characters have a few very close friends at the start of the game;
they will adventure with the players. Perhaps they're unblooded while the
players have bloodlines, so not only are they good friends, but they're
extra-loyal (until/unless treated like crap); the players are their ticket
to glory (they will be the player's 1st lieutenants if/when the players get
a realm to rule). Let the players have some initiative in creating their
friend/henchmen (but don't let 'em go overboard).
IMO, henchmen can be at least as much fun as reoccuring villians; if
played properly, they're almost a part of the group; running fueds between
the henchmen of one player, or almost better, between one henchman of each
player (with the players trying to keep the peace while still being
naturally "on the side" of their own dude; or perhaps they get angry at
their guy for starting a inter-party tiff, and then they've got arguments
with their own henchman). Anyhow, don't let that stuff get too out of hand,
at least not early on; 'cause, like you said, your dudes need assistance.
(I've always loved henchies; one of my old characters ended up with her
full compliment of henchies, all two dozen of 'em. Now **that** was going
over the top; but what a riot! That was back in 1st edition, when you could
recruit henchmen, so it was very strange, but very funny/enjoyable).
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02-06-1998, 05:14 PM #4Samuel WeissGuest
Very small parties in BR
First, instead of a priest, try potions of healing, extra-healing, health,
and vitality. Plus an Amulet vs. Undead. Instead of a mage, more minor
potions, and wands of detection. Generally there is a horde of minor,
non-combat magic items out there that can replace most character classes.
In a low magic world like Cerilia, that becomes a little harder to justify,
but still, it is better than trying to twist everyhting to keep them alive.
That is what I try and do anyway.
Samwise
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02-06-1998, 05:47 PM #5gandalfGuest
Very small parties in BR
- -----Original Message-----
From: Simon Graindorge
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 14:22
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Very small parties in BR
>Hi all,
>
>The group that I play BR with is very small, only two players and me, the
>DM. I have been playing BR with the players as powerful regents (never
>played with high-level characters before), but we want to start a new game
>with low-level PC's, letting them wander around a bit, then (maybe)
>becoming regents in their own right. The players would like to do a bit of
>city adventuring and good old-fashioned wandering. With the online city
>project finally getting underway, I thought the Imperial City would be a
>good place for the characters to start (or go to after a little while).
>
>The problem I have is that I have no real experience with small groups, and
>I can see them dying very easily. In addition, some character classes, like
>Wizard and Priest are really almost a necessity in an adventuring party,
>which makes things really difficult with only 2 PC's. As a DM, I like
>having a spread of different abilities in the group. Of course, this is
>just my preference.
>
>One of the things I was thinking of doing is letting them run 2 characters
>each, or gicing them more powerful bloodlines to make them a bit 'tougher'.
>Has anyone else got any experience with very small parties in the
>Birthright setting, both as adventurers and/or regents??
>
>Any advice/comments would be appreciated. Thanx in advance,
>
> Simon
I have played in three people groups (including the DM) and i can tell you,
it is not that hard. Actually, it is sometimes more quiet, coordinated, and
plainly put, nice.
Now, what to do with the PCs.
I wouldn't recommend you power them up. This way, you will just risk falling
into a kill-em-all campaign. PCs don't handle extra power well, unless they
are VERY experienced. Instead, i would suggest you power the enemies down.
This can be simply done by facing less of them. The problem with small
groups is not that they have few HP and abilities -- it is that they have
few attacks per round. This means that they should go up against less goons.
As for their abilities - I have long played without priests. I like at least
one wizard in the party and then a warrior or thief. Since they will be just
two, here are two good possibilities. To make up for not having a priest,
have the warrior be a paladin. He gets to heal and various stuff like that.
Generally, do not pick the old plain character classes, but some more
'powerful' once (i'd call them diverse).
That's all... I think.
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02-06-1998, 05:51 PM #6gandalfGuest
Very small parties in BR
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geniver
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 17:42
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Very small parties in BR
>As the DMiety, YOU control the level of opposition. You can make it as
>easy or as hard as you want. You don't have to let them have two
>characters. You can provide them with NPC sidekicks that YOU control.
I wouldn't recommend sidekicks. In my experience, they don't function well.
I mean, it's hard to take the initiative a PC does with a sidekick. They are
mostly limited to giving hints and helping out in fights. I think that the
enemy can be weakened sufficiently to avoid using this help. Of course, it
is I who does not like sidekicks. You may be more experienced with them.
It's your choice.
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02-06-1998, 06:48 PM #7Daniel McSorleyGuest
Very small parties in BR
>The group that I play BR with is very small, only two players and me, the
>DM.
>The problem I have is that I have no real experience with small groups, and
>I can see them dying very easily. In addition, some character classes, like
>Wizard and Priest are really almost a necessity in an adventuring party,
>which makes things really difficult with only 2 PC's.
I am currently away at school, but my little brother and I have a pbem
going on in which there is only one character. I agree that AD&D seems
suited more to large groups, but here's the way I've been running it.
I encouraged him to become some variety of warrior, as they can best
survive alone at low levels. Well, he picked a thief anyway. I had the
character start at level 2 so he'd be a little tougher. I have also
networked him with a large cast of npcs that he can call upon for favors and
such, though they can do the same to him of course. That way he isn't truly
alone, just self sufficient if need be.
Since he is the only character, I tailor the adventures more to his
abilities. Less fighting, more sneaking and such. You can really do this
with any class. The only fights he gets in tend to be one on one or else
one on very few weak opponents. If he's got a powerful opponent (relative
to a second level thief), he better not fight him, but use his abilities and
such.
Actually, in a small group, wizards can be done away with. BR is low
magic anyway, so he probably won't be facing any powerful wizards or such,
though a manipulative magician isn't out of the question. At that point, it
would be his wits against the magic/ hired help of the magician.
Priests do tend to be useful, especially in a small party, since they
take more damage per character than a large party. I got lucky, he rolled
healing blood ability. If he hadn't, there can always be a friendly priest
in the city somewhere, he just has to find him.
I hope this is useful.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
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02-07-1998, 03:11 AM #8HSwiftfoot@aol.coGuest
Very small parties in BR
In a message dated 98-02-06 03:23:07 EST, you write:
>
I have been running campaigns for a small group (there's three of us) for
about 10 years now. We've played out the Forgotten Realms and are now just
getting started in the Birthright world. Having a small group was not really
our intention, it just kinda ended up that way and it stuck. We experiemented
with running 2 characters apiece but with experience we found that you really
don't need to. Here's what we do:
In our campaign the emphasis is on character development and role-playing,
though there's a goodly amount of action as well. We take turns DMing...but
its usually me running for the other two guys. Each player has a "pool" of
characters that they can choose one character from, for each adventure. We
often have more than one adventure "ongoing" at any given moment. In BR we've
decided to limit ourselves to a 2 character pool --- one regent and one non-
regent. Players can choose to roll up whatever they want; I give them no
direction as far as "what the party needs" or the like. They are free to
create what they really want to play, but I make sure they put a lot of
thought into their characters background story and motivations. Once I know
which characters the guys are itching to play next, I come up with an
adventure suited to them. (I usually have about a half-dozen plots swimming
madly around my brain at any give time, so this is usually not a problem.)
Essentially, I design adventures around the characters. (And they do the same
for me, when they DM.) Then I see in what areas they are weak, if any, and
provide them with an NPC cohort or two to help them out. The NPCs are often
integral to the story itself, not just "extras" or "Red Shirts" to throw in
front of the Hordes of Marauding Humanoids. I wouldn't recommend having more
than two NPCs adventuring with the PCs as it gets really busy trying to keep
track of a melee. I also recommend not letting the NPCs be of higher level
than the players, though you can make exceptions to this occasionally if
needed.
Its really no big deal running small parties, its just a question of balance.
Generally, smaller parties means you need to give them fewer or weaker
opponents, but the trade-off is that the XPs go a lot farther. I sometimes
give them a little help in the way of a special magic item or two. It all
depends on the story. You don't want your players getting their butts kicked
every time out, but you don't want them to be demigods either. You want them
to be challenged, and at least THINK they might get irrevocably destroyed at
some point.
One of the biggest advantages to small parties is, IMO, that you can focus
more on character and role-playing. With a big party this sometimes gets
lost. Its a more personal and intimate game, and we really love it that way.
It suits our campaign just fine, though it might not be for everybody. In
fact, after playing small parties for so many years, I might find it hard to
go back to a "standard" size party.
I guess in summary my answer would be, let them play what they want, and you
fill in the blanks with whatever NPCs you feel they need. But don't give them
everything on a silver platter! Its fun giving the NPCs some annoying little
quirks, or deep emotional traumas, racial prejudices, attitude problems, etc.,
so that they are not necessarily easy to work with. But the PCs need their
help desperately, so they have to make it work somehow. It makes for some
really creative gaming!
Sorry if I rambled on too much, hope this helps!
Kevin M.
"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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02-09-1998, 03:45 AM #9simong@mech.uwa.edu.auGuest
Very small parties in BR
Thanks very much to everyone who took the time to reply. I now have lots of
ideas on how to handle the situation. I think I'll let the players have
what they want (I have always believed people roleplay much better when the
character is what they wanted, not what they were forced into through bad
rolls of thedice) and see how they go. If need be, I'll add an NPC or two
to the fray to cover any weak areas. I've always DMed about 6+ characters,
and, like somebody said (forgive me, I don't know who) the character
building kinda gets lost in all the mess. Suddenly going from a huge group
to a couple of characters is a bit of a culture shock for me!!
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks,
Simon
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