Avani Paladins

[Draius]

Honor, goodwill, and passion. Of the three, goodwill I would consider an aspect of a Good Alignment. Honor is not necessarily the same for everyone. What an Anuirean considers honor, a Khinasi may not. But abiding by ones word, always keeping that word unless circumstances allow you to free yourself of obligation, could be honorable.

Passion can be represented through both Lawful and Chaotic Alignments. To devote yourself to Law, wholly and without question, is passionate. To demand such high standards from yourself and others requires passion. Chaos is a passion filtered through freedom. You choose your path. You decide what is right and wrong, which can conflict with Good and Evil.

Now look upon a Lawful Neutral Paladin. Passionate about Law, Truth, and Order. They do not walk the paths of Good nor Evil, but the route between, which can be an arduous path. The balance between such extremes as Good and Evil is something only a passionate person would undertake. It would be such passion that would drive humanity from a person, and leave them a tool of that Law.

[dedeefendi]

Geeman, my english didn't help me to understand your words . Sorry but my english is not good enough.
RaspK_FOG, I said that paladins have the passion and it consists the meaning Lawful characters may have passion. May be my mind can't accept a neutral paladin that's all.
Draius, Honor can be diffrent in diffrent cultures as you said. May be a commom honour serves the paladinhood i don't know but its clear that my mind cant accept neutral paladin idea . I like your ideas lawful neutral paladin and passion thing. But I dont belive my players will accept the Avani Paladins; spreaders of the light; neutral . However it may be good in the new core rule book.
It's all about the paladins. A crusader cant accept them as neutral

[geeman]

At 01:41 PM 6/5/2004 +0200, dedeefendi wrote:



>Geeman, my english didn`t help me to understand your words :D . Sorry but

>my english is not good enough.



I`m sure your English is better than my Turkish. What I was getting at is

that the "house rule" you use isn`t really a lot of text, so if there is a

concern that it will add too much space to the BRCS update then that`s not

really much of a worry.



I do, personally, find Avani more lawful than I think you and many other

people do. That has to do with a couple of interpretations of Khinasi

culture along with a somewhat metagame desire to distribute the gods among

the various alignments as evenly as possible and, therefore, to give them

paladins whose alignments are similarly distributed. It just makes for a

more "rounded" campaign IMO, for a pretty negligible amount of text and effort.



Gary

[irdeggman]

Alright here is what we are coming up with for the codes of conduct for paladins with other than LG alignments for the paladin class revision:


Paladins of Avani must be lawful neutral in alignment and follow a Code of Conduct where they are charged to defend places of learning and to protect Avani’s people against those who would use magic against them. They also must respect legitimate authority and not act chaotically or without fore thought. All paladins of Avani know the Five Oaths of Service that the Khinasi require to be taken by all capable of casting true magic. They maintain and keep to these oaths as a point of honor, even though they do not undergo the same rituals that those taking them do. They are frequently used as hunters of those who refuse to take them but don’t hold other nationalities to the same standards since they are considered less civilized and knowing than are the Khinasi. They lose all class abilities if they fail to live by their code.


Paladins of Cuiraécen must be Chaotic Good. Paladins of Cuiraécen follow a Code of Conduct and they lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a cowardly or lawful act, or oppress a weak person. Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she act with valor (not retreat, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.


Paladins of Nesirie must be neutral good in alignment and follow a Code of Conduct and they lose all class if they ever willingly commit an evil act or fail to show compassion to those in need. “Heal the injured, comfort the lost, and negotiate peace among all men” is the credo of Nesirie. While her priests usually make their temples near the water, her paladins travel freely to care for those in need and are often called upon to negotiate or at least oversee peace treaties.


Maybe this will help a bit in the discussion.

[Osprey]

Paladins of Nesirie must be neutral good in alignment and follow a Code of Conduct and they lose all class if they ever willingly commit an evil act or fail to show compassion to those in need. “Heal the injured, comfort the lost, and negotiate peace among all men” is the credo of Nesirie. While her priests usually make their temples near the water, her paladins travel freely to care for those in need and are often called upon to negotiate or at least oversee peace treaties.

Ummm...so what does this creed have to do with being a paladin? That is, paladins are primarily warriors, with a zealous code of conduct and some divine powers to help in the smiting overlaid. Not much about this code even broaches on how fighting is central to a Neserien paladin's path. I think perhaps this could use a bit of revision - doesn't this code sound rather identical to what a Cleric of Neserie's code would be? Shouldn't paladins represent a more militant aspect than this? Others have mentioned the Knights Hospitaller as good inspirations for the Neserien paladins, which I think is a good source.

Osprey

[irdeggman]

Since Nesirie is in essence a god of peace having 'militant' paladins really doesn't make as much sense. That was the reason for making it mostly the same as her clerics.

Nesirie is the diplomat of the god and since people had 'insisted' on the paladins being the ultimate in representing their gods (from alignment to ideals) it made sense to go this way.

Nesirie's paladins were the least warrior-like of any of the BR paladins, by excentuating the difference it makes them
fit the role of their deity better.

Someone needs to take the role of the traveling diplomat. Clerics of Nesire generally are limited to being near the sea or great bodies of water, paladins travel more freely and hence are more apt to fill that role. The hospitaler is more limited to healing the sick and not being the diplomat of the gods.

[geeman]

At 02:40 PM 6/6/2004 +0200, irdeggman wrote information on alignment

variations and codes of conduct for various BR paladins.



Re: the varying alignments of the paladins by deity--love it.



Re: specific Codes for the paladins:



Avani: I like the idea that her paladins are connected to the Five

Oaths. It connects up the class to the culture, coincides with the

emphasis of that goddess and gives the class a specific focus. Nice.



Cuiraécen: I`m not sure how one might want to adjudicate a paladin having

commited a lawful act, so I might throw that out just to avoid

confusion. I think these paladins might also have a code regarding single

combat (it is more heroic) which would significantly influence such characters.



Nesirie: Healing is as good a focus for a character class as any other, but

since paladins are often considered warriors first and foremost I`d go with

something a little more knightly. To keep to a similar (but less

pacifistic) theme, Nesirie`s paladin`s might take charity, personal

poverty, protection of the innocent, defense of the weak, etc. very

seriously. Since Nesirie is likely the closest thing in the Cerilian

pantheon to a god/dess of travel her paladinhood might equate to the

Hospitallers, controlling castles on pilgrim routes, protecting various

holy sights, etc.



Not to beat a dead horse overmuch, but I`m a big fan of paladins of Ruornil

(NG) whose focus is protecting the world of light from creatures of the SW....



In general, I`d consider also throwing in some stuff about defending the

respective peoples for paladins of Haelyn and Avani (the other gods being a

bit more generic) and mention that paladins associated with specific

temples will likely have additional conduct/goals ascribed to them due to

that affiliation.



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

Remember here that fighting a worthy opponent with your budies is actually cowardly: how much of a fair fight is it if you get your whole army against ONE opponent? Thus, yes, paladins of Cuiraécen would face a WORTHY opponent one-on-one, actually honouring their opponent in this way. What valour is there, anyway, if 6 win against 1, heh?

[tcharazazel]

heheh, valour... the dead have no say as those who killed them write the history. They may have had valour even though they may have simply been shot full of arrows, does it matter? Heh, in time the humans will forget and it will just be another petty battle written off in history...

Though, from their viewpoint, they probably would all face him in single combat even if that means their deaths then... gotta love the foolish, makin life so easy.

[geeman]

At 04:55 PM 6/7/2004 +0200, tcharazazel wrote:



>Though, from their viewpoint, they probably would all face him in single

>combat even if that means their deaths then... gotta love the foolish,

>makin life so easy.



There are plenty of examples of theologically motivated warriors of just

about every stripe exhibiting what might be called "suicidal

bravery." Cuiraecen`s paladins might be more or less inclined towards that

kind of thing depending on how one wants to play them, and though I think

it`s not a bad idea to put something like that in their code, I think it

would be important to note that they shouldn`t necessarily be foolish about

it. A character shouldn`t be required to do the nutty thing and take off

after an opponent that is wildly beyond his capacity (read: EL) while

insisting that nobody aid him in that combat.



So I guess if a single combat condition is going to be put into the class

for Cuiraecen`s paladins a note that it really only applies to combat with

opponents that are an appropriate challenge for the character; as in,

within a level or two of his/er EL.



Gary