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Thread: Avani Paladins

  1. #1
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    Rather than smite evil Avani paladins should have smite shadow, i.e. creatures from the shadow world and undead. Since this would be pretty significantly weaker than smite evil (how often does one run into shadow world creatures or undead compared to just evil creatures), I would suggest strengthening the Paladins spells. The two simplest ideas which come to mind are giving paladins access to spells from the domains knowlede, law and magic or starting a paladins spell progression a little earlier such as on 2nd or 3rd level.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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    The Jew said:

    > Rather than smite evil Avani paladins should have smite shadow, i.e.

    > creatures from the shadow world and undead.



    Assuming that, as I do, almost all Shadow World creatures are Chaotic and

    Evil, Smite Chaos might be an alternative.



    Personally, I don`t see why Smite Evil has to go; Avani is still into the

    supression of evil, afterall, just without having to be merciful and just.



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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Halflings are also shadow world creatures so the smite shadow would also work against them.

    Ruornil was specifically mentioned as having the role of keeping the shadow world at bay.

    Avani is about seeking and preserving knowledge and spreading light. This could be interpreted as being against the shadow, but remember that the showdow world is not really a darkness thing it is just a name given to the place that due to its constantly changing nature it is like looking at the world through shadows.

    Smite Evil would have to go otherwise we would be saying tha Avani is really a good deity and not a neutral one.

    I wasn't saying that Avani's paladins couldn't be rewritten to reflect this nature but remember that the majority wanted the paladins not to be rewritten as separate classes, unfortunately this is one case where the standard PHB paladin doesn't work for a non good aligned paladin.

    Neutral clerics can either cast spontaneous helaing or harming, but have to chose at character creation. This was to reflect that their diety is neutral on the subject of alignment, since a paladin is supposed to be reflected the deity's core principles it doesn't work to have it left up to the player's choice (or to specify in this case). Smite Chaos could work instead since Avani is Lawful.
    Duane Eggert

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    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    I have no problem with Smite Chaos replacing Smite Evil for Avani's champions. Seems a reasonable reflection of their axiomatic natures, and it's an even-keeled replacement that doesn't upset the balance of power with the class in any way.

    Osprey

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    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Smite Chaos all the way with me... One of the things I was certain from the start when it came to the individual write-ups I still have not sent you Irdeggman; explanation already given via PM if you have not noticed it.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    No problem Rasp, as I IM'd back.

    You are after all the only one who has expressed an interest in creating writeups at all
    Duane Eggert

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    With the low-magic item availablity, I would have the paladin's smite ability allow the weapon to be considered a force effect. Maybe only that attack, maybe for 1 minute. Not sure on that.

    Incoporeal undead and shadows should be easier for them to combat.

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    Originally posted by destowe

    With the low-magic item availablity, I would have the paladin's smite ability allow the weapon to be considered a force effect. Maybe only that attack, maybe for 1 minute. Not sure on that.

    Incoporeal undead and shadows should be easier for them to combat.
    Paladins gain the ability to turn undead at 4th level (albeit as a cleric 3 levels lower than their current level). They also receive the ability to cast spells at 4th level (provided that their Wisdom bonus is high enough). This means that at 4th level they have the choice of either turning a shadow (chances are slim) or casting Magic Weapon and at least having a 50% chance of damaging it.

    A shadow is only a CR 3 monster which means it would be a challenge for a party of 3rd level characters. Although the Paladin at 3rd level (without a magical weapon) would not be a great help in directly defeating a shadow, she could support the magician, wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or person(s) with a magical weapon in doing so.

    I'm not convinced that making the smite ability a force affect is the answer, but I always appreciate being proven wrong, it keeps me humble.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    I agree with Ming I in that changing smite evil to a force power drastically changes the make up of the character classes for a single specific issue.

    How many times really should a DM use shadows against a 3rd level party, regardless of their CR? IMO most of the time the encounter will be more lower level undead instead.

    Also scions (scion level 1) can start with magic weapons if the "Heirlooms and Special Equipment" variant (BRCS pg 148) is used {IMO this will generally be a standard variant for campaigns, since it matches the 2nd ed sytem for starting regents' equipment)

    Spiritual Weapon (a 2nd level Cleric spell) and magic missle (a 1st level wizard/sorc spell) both are effective against Incorporeal undead. Bless weapon (a 1st level paladin spell - avail at 4th level for a paladin) is also effective.

    So there are many ways to overcome this 'obstacle', which should be explored and 'planned for' by the DM before generating such an encounter.
    Duane Eggert

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    I completely forgot about spritiual weapon. That makes a good 2nd level spell for a CR3 party.

    Yes magic missiles are nice, but as magicians are going to be the most common arcane caster, they can not handle them.

    But does not Bless Weapon still have the 50% miss rate? And I thought all magic items still had the 50% miss chance.

    I still like the Smite (shadow) better than smite (chaos) for Avani's paladins are seen more as defending against the encroachments of the Shadow, than going against those that walk their own path.

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