Chapter 5 ideas

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by tcharazazel@May 6 2004, 01:53 PM
So the Noble class who gets x2.5, and all others can potentially get x1.5-x2 RP collections.

So the max RP you want to allow a regent to collect will be x2 RP, then irdeggman?

and then all classes should be able to get x2 RP then?

But the bottom line is indeed that all classes should have the same potential to collect RP.

Where did you get this one from?

I said all regents gain full for provinces and that a noble gets 1 1/2 times either law or guild (depending on his focus).

There is no 2 1/2 times in any variation here. It is a multiplier and that must be kept in mind. Provinces are rated differently then holding and there are far more unlanded regents than there are landed ones.

All regents will be limited by their blood score for maximum RP collection - that will always be the limiting factor.

If anything is done to mess with the province tie in for regents than basically landed regents end up being given the shaft when in fact they should be held at a higher level of influence than non-landed regents.

[irdeggman]

Let me again clarify my opinion here - I really liked the skill based RP collection method. In theory it allowed for characters to get better as they got more skilled and again in theory it workd/sounded real good. But the mechanics got in the way - many many people talked about how the skill based system just didn't work (that was where I got what I did from - what people had said they wanted or at least wanted changed)

The skill based system gave in inherent advantage to classes with more skill points and someone pointed out that a rouge could fairly quickly gain max RP for all holdings due to the number of skill points they gained per level. In a domain-level based game this is quite a problem since people focus not on the adventure level skills but instead on the domain influencing ones - hence classeswith more skill points come out way ahead in the system. There is really no easy way to get around this either, which was why people had suggested going back to the class-based system instead, but to have diminishing returns for secondary classes since multi-classing is way more common now.


As far as 3.5 balance being combat-oriented, well that is indeed a flaw in the system. But the bottom line is still to not have a class that people want to play so much more than others because of its power in the system being used. So to keep the spirit of 3.5 since BR is definitely more skill/domain level based than a standard setting this intent for balance needs to carry over to the domain level of play (e.g., RP collection and domain actions). This is something that we clearly can control since it is not in the core rules.

[tcharazazel]

sry it wasnt clear enough for ya irdeggman, I was refering to Osprey's system. and if you look at it again, Nobles will get full for province (x1), full for Law or guild (x1), and 1/2 for the secondary (x.5) = 2.5. And if you look at your system ALL regents could potentially collect x2.5 RP as all got full RP from provinces, and all got a total of 1.5 from holdings = 2.5...

And I wasnt refering to the limit of only being able to collect up to their bloodline score, I was refering to keeping the multiplier equal for all classes. So at most people could collect x2.5 from the total province/holdings they have.

I used a multiplier as it is easier to keep track of it. I was just basing it as 1 level of holding = 1 RP normally, and its multiplied by the perfered class modifier.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Athos69@May 6 2004, 02:41 PM

If Duane, you are so concerned with the proliferation of RP, then let's do something like stretching out the table, giving 100% Regency collection for higher skill rank totals.

I was not concerned with the proliferation of RP only with developing a relatively easy to use and 'balanced' system.

[tcharazazel]

heh, an easy example of what i meant is a noble with a level 6 province, level 6 Law and level 6 Guild would get 6*2.5=15 RP or 6 + 6 + 3= 15 RP.

just really depends on how you want to think about it.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by tcharazazel@May 6 2004, 03:11 PM
sry it wasnt clear enough for ya irdeggman, I was refering to Osprey's system. and if you look at it again, Nobles will get full for province (x1), full for Law or guild (x1), and 1/2 for the secondary (x.5) = 2.5. And if you look at your system ALL regents could potentially collect x2.5 RP as all got full RP from provinces, and all got a total of 1.5 from holdings = 2.5...

And I wasnt refering to the limit of only being able to collect up to their bloodline score, I was refering to keeping the multiplier equal for all classes. So at most people could collect x2.5 from the total province/holdings they have.

I used a multiplier as it is easier to keep track of it. I was just basing it as 1 level of holding = 1 RP normally, and its multiplied by the perfered class modifier.

That is pretty much what I was aiming for, the sums adding up to 5 1/2s for all classes.

For those classes that really aren't suited for ruling like bards, rangers and possibly paladins (although there is Elinie) the most logical way to handle this while still maintaining balance is to spread it out over more holding types which forces them to have higher levels of holdings or a lot of holdings in order to keep up with a more 'suitable' class. Either option is more difficult for them to accomplish.

I do like the barbarian and troops tie in, law holdings just didn't seem right even though they still must maintain control over their lands.

I also forgot the scion classes which probably should be handled like the noble for this purpose.

[Athos69]

Originally posted by irdeggman@May 6 2004, 01:09 PM
The skill based system gave in inherent advantage to classes with more skill points and someone pointed out that a rouge could fairly quickly gain max RP for all holdings due to the number of skill points they gained per level. In a domain-level based game this is quite a problem since people focus not on the adventure level skills but instead on the domain influencing ones - hence classeswith more skill points come out way ahead in the system. There is really no easy way to get around this either, which was why people had suggested going back to the class-based system instead, but to have diminishing returns for secondary classes since multi-classing is way more common now.

Duane, I wasn't bashing you there.. I was trying to make a case for retaining the skill point system, but with some tweaks that make it more palatable.

True, the Rogue gets alot of skill points, but that has al;rady been offset by the large number of skills that are tied to the collection of Guild RP. In fact, the Guilds are already using a form of averaging to determine their RP collection.

If we use the averaging scheme, it makes it much more difficult to get RP without concentrating on those skills. We also need to think about Wizards. They may only get 2 skill points per level, but their high INT scores almost guarantee them 2 or 3 points in addition to any racial bonus. On the other hand, Sorcerers don't have the benefit of a high INT -- this makes increasing the number of skills for Source RP collection a dicey prospect.

[irdeggman]

Maybe I'll just start another poll. Those are alwyas popular.

[tcharazazel]

we should try to give them at least 2 good examples before we turn to the polls.

So we have 2 clear examples i mean, not just use skill points or have it class based.

[Athos69]

I agree. Peiople should understand the mechanics behind it before they vote.