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Thread: Noble War?-long

  1. #1
    Samuel Weiss
    Guest

    Noble War?-long

    I must say I am confused by Kenneth Gauck's latest post on thsi thread. the
    first part almost seems to defin what I meant when I said:



    yet that last line:



    pretty well sums up my point as well.
    I do not know who this Pierre de Vassiere is or was, but he seems to be
    wanting to justify the periodic pscychotic rampages of a few effete snobs
    in plate armor, with way too much time on their hands, ego in their heads,
    and 1st cousins in their lineage. The code described is just the sort of
    split personality thing so called "noble types" (read: "my daddy killed the
    right people and kissed the right butts and yours didn't") want people to
    believe makes it alright for them to go around not just killing themselves,
    but starting major wars to satisfy their bloodlust.
    Quite frankly, it is just they way some people played the old 1st edition
    cavalier. A nice excuse to slaughter anyone and anything that looked at
    them crosseyed, under the guise of "protecting their honor".
    Moral question- the definiton of courage:
    Is courage the absence of fear, or the act of doing what is morally right
    in spite of your fear? If you are challenged to a fight, or insulted
    publicly, does it take more courage to kill the person, or to walk away
    with everyone calling you a coward?
    Haven't there been more than enough movies for people to understand this
    yet?
    I believe in noble war-it's called peace.

    Samwise, Teacher of the Martial Arts, and Guide in the Martial Way

  2. #2
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    Noble War?-long

    > Is courage the absence of fear, or the act of doing what is morally right
    > in spite of your fear? If you are challenged to a fight, or insulted
    > publicly, does it take more courage to kill the person, or to walk away
    > with everyone calling you a coward?
    > Haven't there been more than enough movies for people to understand this
    > yet?
    > I believe in noble war-it's called peace.
    >
    Are we playing a game set in a midieval/renaissance setting, with conflict
    et al (and a harmless way to release it in a game rather than real-life),
    or are we re-enacting the '60s? Point is, regardless of how right (or
    wrong) you may be, it's called *role* playing; immersing yourself in
    another character, not just repicating your own attitudes and overlaying
    them onto how the past "should have" been. Anyhow, I'll get off my soapbox
    now.

  3. #3
    Samuel Weiss
    Guest

    Noble War?-long

    Well James Ruhland, the difference is between role playing and believing.
    My post was based on people actually believing that nonsense about war and
    nobility. In a game, I'll stay in character whatever it may be. But if we
    are going to start actually discussing the things involved, in this case
    what tactics would start being used, then we have to put the fantsay aside
    and discuss things realistically. Quite frankly, I doubt the Vos have much
    of any use for Anuirean notions of "noble warfare". And the Rjuriks view of
    a "nobleman' would be quite different as well. That is what gets a real
    life leader in trouble. Assuming his enemies believe what he does. Maybe I
    was up on that soapbox, but I think it is an important area of concern. But
    I will try and be good. Then again, i still haven't seen any remarks on my
    tactics of the aggressor. Everyone still in shock over them or do you all
    just agree 100% with them?

    Samwise

  4. #4
    c558382@showme.missouri.
    Guest

    Noble War?-long

    We don't live in a warrior society, now would most of us want to. But
    some of us might like to role-play it. Nobility and honor are lost to our
    age. We have other virtues. We may not even like the virtues of the
    ancien regime or the middle ages or the ancients, but to deny that the
    words they invented to describe them mean what they were invented to mean
    is at the least an obstacle to understanding the past. If we insist on
    judging the past by our bias we cannot hope to understand it. In real
    life I would not prefer or want to be a necromancer, but I have played one
    in D&D.

    Kenneth Gauck
    c558382@showme.missouri.edu

  5. #5
    Samuel Weiss
    Guest

    Noble War?-long

    Actually Kenneth, I am a warrior. With ethics, and virtues and all those
    fun things. We do exist in the modern age, despite all the attempts of
    "well meaning types" to get rid of us, and we still do what we have always
    done. Protect those we commit ourselves to protecting no matter how well or
    poorly they treat us. Further I understand the past quite clearly, having
    adopted the alleged values of the "nobility" before growing up and seeing
    it for what it was, rank hypocrisy and self serving justifications.
    There seems to be this constant confusion between the terms "nobleman" and
    "noble man". The two may seem to be identical on the surface, but they are
    not. Neither is a prerequisite for the other, and indeed they are very
    rarely found together in the same person.
    There is no difficulty in recognizing the flaws in the so-called "codes of
    noble conduct" of the knightly and noble classes of the middle ages. And
    quite frankly, given the nature of the BR setting, a DM can actually
    enforce them. This was practically encouraged in the BoP. Maybe that is why
    neither Darien Avan nor Aeric Boeruine are suitable to be the Emperor. Both
    understand the "Lawful" part, but neither gets the "Good" part. Or the fact
    that after failing 3 times to take Danigau, the Anuireans relented when the
    Count stated that further attacks would force him to "cleanse Cerilia of
    the Anuirean pestilence." why did the Anuireans relent? Because they knew
    they were in the wrong and would best move on to someplace where the
    blooded were less dedicated to their peoples and land?
    But the first step in so doing is to recognize those flaws and accept that
    they exist. Ignoring them and trying to play as though everything is some
    actualized version of Mallory's Morte D'Artur would actually detract from
    the setting IMO.

    Samwise

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