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Thread: Noble War?-long
01-26-1998, 06:54 PM #1Samuel WeissGuest
I must say I am confused by Kenneth Gauck's latest post on thsi thread. the
first part almost seems to defin what I meant when I said:
yet that last line:
pretty well sums up my point as well.
I do not know who this Pierre de Vassiere is or was, but he seems to be
wanting to justify the periodic pscychotic rampages of a few effete snobs
in plate armor, with way too much time on their hands, ego in their heads,
and 1st cousins in their lineage. The code described is just the sort of
split personality thing so called "noble types" (read: "my daddy killed the
right people and kissed the right butts and yours didn't") want people to
believe makes it alright for them to go around not just killing themselves,
but starting major wars to satisfy their bloodlust.
Quite frankly, it is just they way some people played the old 1st edition
cavalier. A nice excuse to slaughter anyone and anything that looked at
them crosseyed, under the guise of "protecting their honor".
Moral question- the definiton of courage:
Is courage the absence of fear, or the act of doing what is morally right
in spite of your fear? If you are challenged to a fight, or insulted
publicly, does it take more courage to kill the person, or to walk away
with everyone calling you a coward?
Haven't there been more than enough movies for people to understand this
I believe in noble war-it's called peace.
Samwise, Teacher of the Martial Arts, and Guide in the Martial Way
01-26-1998, 09:25 PM #2James RuhlandGuest
> Is courage the absence of fear, or the act of doing what is morally right
> in spite of your fear? If you are challenged to a fight, or insulted
> publicly, does it take more courage to kill the person, or to walk away
> with everyone calling you a coward?
> Haven't there been more than enough movies for people to understand this
> I believe in noble war-it's called peace.
Are we playing a game set in a midieval/renaissance setting, with conflict
et al (and a harmless way to release it in a game rather than real-life),
or are we re-enacting the '60s? Point is, regardless of how right (or
wrong) you may be, it's called *role* playing; immersing yourself in
another character, not just repicating your own attitudes and overlaying
them onto how the past "should have" been. Anyhow, I'll get off my soapbox
01-26-1998, 11:43 PM #3Samuel WeissGuest
Well James Ruhland, the difference is between role playing and believing.
My post was based on people actually believing that nonsense about war and
nobility. In a game, I'll stay in character whatever it may be. But if we
are going to start actually discussing the things involved, in this case
what tactics would start being used, then we have to put the fantsay aside
and discuss things realistically. Quite frankly, I doubt the Vos have much
of any use for Anuirean notions of "noble warfare". And the Rjuriks view of
a "nobleman' would be quite different as well. That is what gets a real
life leader in trouble. Assuming his enemies believe what he does. Maybe I
was up on that soapbox, but I think it is an important area of concern. But
I will try and be good. Then again, i still haven't seen any remarks on my
tactics of the aggressor. Everyone still in shock over them or do you all
just agree 100% with them?
01-27-1998, 12:00 AM #firstname.lastname@example.org.Guest
We don't live in a warrior society, now would most of us want to. But
some of us might like to role-play it. Nobility and honor are lost to our
age. We have other virtues. We may not even like the virtues of the
ancien regime or the middle ages or the ancients, but to deny that the
words they invented to describe them mean what they were invented to mean
is at the least an obstacle to understanding the past. If we insist on
judging the past by our bias we cannot hope to understand it. In real
life I would not prefer or want to be a necromancer, but I have played one
01-27-1998, 02:40 AM #5Samuel WeissGuest
Actually Kenneth, I am a warrior. With ethics, and virtues and all those
fun things. We do exist in the modern age, despite all the attempts of
"well meaning types" to get rid of us, and we still do what we have always
done. Protect those we commit ourselves to protecting no matter how well or
poorly they treat us. Further I understand the past quite clearly, having
adopted the alleged values of the "nobility" before growing up and seeing
it for what it was, rank hypocrisy and self serving justifications.
There seems to be this constant confusion between the terms "nobleman" and
"noble man". The two may seem to be identical on the surface, but they are
not. Neither is a prerequisite for the other, and indeed they are very
rarely found together in the same person.
There is no difficulty in recognizing the flaws in the so-called "codes of
noble conduct" of the knightly and noble classes of the middle ages. And
quite frankly, given the nature of the BR setting, a DM can actually
enforce them. This was practically encouraged in the BoP. Maybe that is why
neither Darien Avan nor Aeric Boeruine are suitable to be the Emperor. Both
understand the "Lawful" part, but neither gets the "Good" part. Or the fact
that after failing 3 times to take Danigau, the Anuireans relented when the
Count stated that further attacks would force him to "cleanse Cerilia of
the Anuirean pestilence." why did the Anuireans relent? Because they knew
they were in the wrong and would best move on to someplace where the
blooded were less dedicated to their peoples and land?
But the first step in so doing is to recognize those flaws and accept that
they exist. Ignoring them and trying to play as though everything is some
actualized version of Mallory's Morte D'Artur would actually detract from
the setting IMO.
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