Rhuobhe Manslayer

[RaspK_FOG]

Originally posted by geeman@Apr 30 2004, 08:00 AM
Instead of making it an automatic thing what if insanity were a disadvantage? It could have several stages of Insanity 1, Insanity 2, etc. just like other disadvantages.

In general, I like that better than making it the norm for all awnshegh since some would appear not to be insane in and of themselves. It`s just that their transformation gives them what would be radically different perspectives. Technically, what seems "insane" in several cases might not really be much more bizarre than the differences between human and Cerilian elf psychology....

I had this whole idea of making it a disadvantage after I made that post, but I have limited access online per day equal to 2 hours (free online access from my university; can't afford to pay for the Internet as well&#33, so I couldn't post it... Sorry for all the frustration!

What I have in mind could be carried out in a similar manner to what goes with The Wheel of Time, or any other listing one comes up with; I believe, however, that having the statistic being compared to one's Wisdom score is best, since insanity or whatnot mental incapacitation condition was always a factor of either Intelligence (unnaturally low reasoning, I.Q., and wits) or Wisdom (common sense, perception capacity, mental stability). This allows for characters with good Wisdom scores to see things through the perspective this new mental condition presents them with. However, the whole Will save thingy every now and then off-sets my idea and still works along your system perfectly (unlike my initial suggestion :P), so why not?

I also thought of additional Madness sub-branches: Delusion (hallucinations), Hysteria (frenzied actions, little reasoning; flies in berserk or jumps at people's throats), Paranoia (overly suspicious and jumpy), Regression (animalistic or otherwise crude acts that are not appropriate to intelligent creatures), and Withdrawal (becomes distant, even catatonic; penalties on skill checks to notice things, on initiative checks, such stuff).

What do you think?

[Osprey]

What do you think?

I think you should do your own Birthright conversion, and call it the Wheel of Birthright...

:lol:

[geeman]

I like insanity. It`s interesting, amusing, fun for the whole family,

keeps a massive amount of mood altering medications circulating through the

population to the point that now half the Western world seems to have

confused them with vitamins, and it`s a good time for just about

everyone--even the lab rats whose brain dissections keep so many lab

workers up late at night at least meet the scalpel after a heady dose of

thought provoking LSD.



However, I don`t know if it`s particularly a Birthright theme. At least, I

don`t think an awnsheghlien-specific sanity score system a la WoT or UA`s

CoC system is necessary to reflect the effects of transformation, so I

don`t think I`d want to incorporate it into the system of awnsheghlien

transformation automatically. That`s not to say sanity should be an issue

at all. The long-lived awnshegh (or scions) might have issues with their

mental well-being after a few centuries, or other aspects of having a

bloodline might be maddening. If I had the collective memories of several

dozen generations of my relatives swirling about in my head like someone

with Blood History does I might find that unsettling. After all, I can

barely stand those people on the holidays.... There might be a few that

are specifically driven mad by either their transformation, because their

pre-transformation biology/psychology was kind of leaning that way anyway,

or some combination thereof. (I get that vibe off the Spider, for instance.)



On the whole, however, I think a system that assigns specific types of game

mechanical effects for insanity that equates them to any of the more

physical issues described by the aforementioned disadvantage system should

do the trick for those characters who begin to lose their marbles as part

of their thematic change into some (insane) animal totemic form.



I do like WoT`s system and the CoC stuff, but in BR the transformation, the

corruption of Azrai`s bloodline (or the elevation of some other derivation

for ersheghlien) is the process itself. Where madness is part of the

system for WoT or CoC the system of becoming an awnsheghlien or ersheghlien

occupies a similar role in BR, so insanity on top of the transformation

strikes me as redundant.



Gary

[teloft]

I was just thinking

How will Rhoubhe the Manslayer act in the fyrst 3 rounds of an encounter?

What are his favorit polymorphs?

What he prefears for dinner?

...

and the other topic I have is about Awnsheglien
the 3rd scion levels, and the levels beond the 3rd could be the "monster" levels. But in order to unlock thows leevels you must fyrst gain a prerequised.

no, never mind, silli idee.

!! happy labours day !!

[RaspK_FOG]

I find myself being misunderstood:

However, the whole Will save thingy every now and then off-sets my idea and still works along your system perfectly (unlike my initial suggestion ), so why not?

What I meant with that last note was that, however fun I thought those ideas would be, the whole disadvantage system has also (finally :lol crossed my mind and think it would really work, much like Garry's interpretation of Phobia (I wouldn't be able to write something like that, honestly! Great work&#33, so that means that, all in all, I agree with the idea you proposed (incorprorating madness as a disadvantage) best...

I also thought of additional Madness sub-branches: Delusion (hallucinations), Hysteria (frenzied actions, little reasoning; flies in berserk or jumps at people's throats), Paranoia (overly suspicious and jumpy), Regression (animalistic or otherwise crude acts that are not appropriate to intelligent creatures), and Withdrawal (becomes distant, even catatonic; penalties on skill checks to notice things, on initiative checks, such stuff).

My WHOLE "What do you think?" comment at the end of the document was mostly attributed to this last part! Do me some justice and comment on this, pretty please?

[RaspK_FOG]

Look, I don't want to sound nasty, but I presented an idea or two and got a few (if any, really) comments, with little real connection to whole point...

You said, Gary, that you believe things as shown by your earlier post on a mechanics basis are better than what I initially suggested; fine with me, I agreed with you in my last two posts. I see no reason for confusion to butt in!

Secondly, why did you all not notice I provided additional, flavour- and machanically-based ideas for other "branches/types" of madness, like Regression, Withdrawal and whatnot? WHY?

To see what I mean, read previous post. Particularly the quotes: they are mine.

[tcharazazel]

I think your ideas for varying types of insanity are very cool, however, they would also require a bit of work to figure out what differentiates each one in game terms. Its easier, though definately not as accurate, to create just the insanity transformation with its set detrements to the character. The various subtypes of insanity could be examples of how the insanity can manifest itself.

Reason behind this is that some types of insanity may actually add benefits to the character along with detrements. Such as Paranoia which would likely cause the character to double or triple his guards, ensure their loyalty by periodically testing them and killing those found "unloyal," while also causing him to become afraid of people who wield some power that could be considered threatening, though he would likely prepare against and try to take out at these "enemies," even if they don't exsist or are allies. The result would be a character who is very difficult to surprise, constantly has several guards with him, activly thinks up scenarios to catch his "enemies" by surprise and in weak positions and any allies he may have had would not likely live for a long time unless he is very afraid of them and cant figure a way to take them out. So in personal combat with him, it will be almost impossible to fight him alone, and he is likely to sneak attack from a distance, while his guards delay and distract his oppenents.

A further degree of Paranoia maybe Paranoid Schizophrenia where the character sees imaginary people and generally has a special purpose that has to do with that false reality, heheh, an example is imagining they are a god would be appropriate.

As you can see, trying to figure out the benefits and detrements of each insanity can be rather difficult to determine.


There is one question though... can such insanity be cured by a Heal spell? If so, then its not really an appropriate to have it as a transformation, even though its very unlikely an awnshegh will get a cleric to cast Heal upon it, there are still clerics of Belinik, the Cold Rider, and Kriesha who may cast Heal upon the afflicted awnshegh.

[geeman]

At 02:54 AM 5/12/2004 +0200, RaspK_FOG wrote:



>Look, I don`t want to sound nasty, but I presented an idea or two and got

>a few (if any, really) comments, with little real connection to whole point...

>

>You said, Gary, that you believe things as shown by your

>earlier post on a mechanics basis are better than what I initially

>suggested; fine with me, I agreed with you in my last two posts. I see no

>reason for confusion to butt in!



I`m not sure what you mean here, I`m afraid, but I`m going to try to

address #2 below in hopes of settling the matter. If I don`t cover things

please try to clarify so I can respond more appropriately.



>Secondly, why did you all not notice I provided additional, flavour- and

>machanically-based ideas for other "branches/types" of madness,

>like Regression, Withdrawal and whatnot? WHY?



I did comment (in another thread) that think paranoia might be some

combination of obsession and phobia. Game mechanically speaking, that

is. As for the rest of those maladies I don`t have anything to say mostly

because I`m not seeing how they might be implemented. Phobia and Obsession

were relatively easy since they can be associated with them. Phobia = fear

affects, Obession = fascination. For the others I`m not seeing a very

direct correlation towards an existing D&D condition or magical effect.



The nice thing about portraying either of those mental conditions is that

there are handy D&D mechanics that are written up with which they can be

equated. In the case of Phobia there is even the nice progression of fear

effects going from Shaken to Frightened to Panicked culminating in the

ultimate Helpless condition which makes for a happy set of sequential

disadvantages. Obsession works in a similar fashion--though not quite as

articulated.



So I guess the questions asked should be; what is the game mechanical

effect/condition with which regression, withdrawal, etc. might be

associated? Given that one could create a series of disadvantages using

the ones already written up as a guideline.



Assuming that`s the kind of thing you`re looking for....



In the abstract, my point in previous posts has been that I think insanity

as a concept could fit into something like the disadvantages of the

awnshegh class. It can be its own set of rules per the stuff in

CoC/UA. When it comes to the WoT`s system of madness that accompanies the

male aspect of magic, I think we have a contrasting view of how such a

thing might be handled in campaign material, however, and one that might be

more comparable to the situation describing BR`s awnsheghlien. That is,

its a sort of subsystem of the existing game mechanic. That`s what I think

it should be in BR: a subsystem of a game mechanic. In this case the

subsystem is the disadvantage special ability of the more general game

mechanic of an awnshegh character class. That is, technically, I suppose a

subsystem of the overall bloodline system.



I think handling it like that gives the concept both a set of guidelines

and assigns it to an appropriate thematic level in the setting. Where

madness and insanity are a more significant thematic emphasis of CoC and

WoT (more CoC, of course) BR has a proportionately less significant

emphasis on the issue. To define it as clearly as possible, that

proportional significance might be describe like this:



CoC: Game mechanics directly address the issue of insanity.

WoT: Insanity is a subset of the game mechanics regarding magic.

BR: Insanity is a portion of the subset of effects for the game

mechanics regarding awnsheghlien.



Hope that addresses your concerns more directly (and isn`t a further

confusion of the matter.)



Gary

[geeman]

At 07:51 AM 5/12/2004 +0200, tcharazazel wrote:



>There is one question though... can such insanity be cured by a Heal

>spell? If so, then its not really an appropriate to have it as a

>transformation, even though its very unlikely an awnshegh will get a

>cleric to cast Heal upon it, there are still clerics of Belinik, the Cold

>Rider, and Kriesha who may cast Heal upon the afflicted awnshegh.



That`s an interesting little snag. I think the way to do this would be to

allow for a Heal spell to "cure" an insane awnshegh but only

temporarily--despite the fact that such healing is supposed to be

permanent. The madness in question is, after all, brought on by a divine

power, which is going to be more influential and lasting than a temporary

spell effect or even a condition equating to what we would consider a

psychological insanity. Eventually, the character`s divinely inspired

madness will reassert itself. I`d draw parallel between Healing a

character driven insane by his/er awnshegh transformation and a "natural"

shapeshifter being hit by a Polymorph spell.



The question then becomes, how long would the magical sanity of a Heal

spell affect an awnshegh with insanity disadvantages?



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

To answer both issues:

• First of all, sorry for jumping on your throat with my previous post; I was just wondering how you would like my ideas that when I got none I somehow felt offended... Again, please, excuse me for being edgy.
• My idea regarding insanity would be to use your system; I initially had other things in mind, but it is more than some time that I saw the advantages of your method. I think there could be a set of rules regarding the various kinds of insanity (Withdrawal would apply a penalty on Initiative, Concentration, Listen, Search, Spot, and other patience-, perception-, or interest-related skills, Hysteria would cause the character to fly into a rage as a the barbarian ability [insanity has been known to trigger extremely high adrenaline production], unless he makes a Will save, or things like that).
• An idea would be to say that the character always gets a separate Will save; if he succeeds, he is not cured of his madness. On the other hand, if he fails, he would get cured of it for a variable period of time according to the number by which he failed (for example, 1 day per caster level for -1 to -5, 1 week per caster level for -6 to -10, 1 month per caster level for -11 to -15, or 1 season per caster level for -16 and below).