Rhuobhe Manslayer

[geeman]

At 11:34 PM 4/29/2004 +0200, Osprey wrote:



>Good Reflex and Will saves (though you might allow awnshegh to pick any 2

>high saves appropriate to their creature type)



I don`t see awnshegh as particularly "strong willed" creatures on the

whole, and I have a little system to handle the involuntarily

transformation of scions of Azrai into awnshegh that uses will saves to

resist the temptation of Azrai`s blood, so giving awnsheghlien on the whole

the good will save progression doesn`t really work in that context. If one

had an awnshegh or ershegh theme that had strong will as an aspect one

could use the transformation that grants saving throw bonuses to reflect that.



>After thinking on it, I`d say go with 1 Transformation per level and 1

>Disadvantage every other level for the non-BP Awnshegh/Ershegh

>class. After all, all of the featured awshegh seem far more advantaged

>than disadvantaged, their major disadvantages being a massive social

>stigma rather than physical disabilities...though psychological

>disabilities resulting from the transformation are very appropriate (like

>the Spider`s insanity).



The disadvantages of the class as presented are also generally slightly

less scaled up in power than the advantages. Though several are pretty

significant, one can min/max them to a certain extent. In this case it was

done purposefully that way in order to balance the effect of the special

abilities of the class. It`s a bit of an ad hoc process, of course, but it

seems to work.



> Ha ha, ever consider having a Humanity rating for awnshegh? Or the

> opposite, a Monstrosity rating? :lol: Might be fun to keep track of

> their humanity slipping away...



Actually, in the case of a coupe of awnsheghlien (those who begin the

process as natural animals or monsters) I do kind of look at their

transformation as being them growing "more human" the a way that is

parallel to the "degeneration" of a human awnshegh/ershegh into a

theriomorphic form. It might be seen as analogous to the way that Rhoubhe

is transforming into a sort of humanized elf by becoming more lawful. When

I wrote up Redclaw I pictured (and tried to describe) the creature as being

basically a crab that seemed to be taking on kind of humanoid

qualities. Not human, mind you, or even erect, but definitely "evolved"

from its crustacean form.



Gary

[geeman]

At 04:13 AM 4/30/2004 +0200, RaspK_FOG wrote:



>I think that this could work out:

• Keep Gary`s system, with the
  
  >change of "any two saves high".
• Use Osprey`s idea as
  
  >follows:
  • Awnshegh have an Derangement/Insanity/Madness/[whatever]
    
    >score equal to their Awnshegh level.
  • The difference between an
    
    >Awnshegh [whatever] and Wisdom scores would give some effects, which would
    
    >be mixed blessings mostly (good thingies with bad
    
    >side-effects).
  • When [whatever] score equals Wisdom score, Awnshegh
    
    >is utterly mad.

Instead of making it an automatic thing what if insanity were a

disadvantage? It could have several stages of Insanity 1, Insanity 2, etc.

just like other disadvantages.



In general, I like that better than making it the norm for all awnshegh

since some would appear not to be insane in and of themselves. It`s just

that their transformation gives them what would be radically different

perspectives. Technically, what seems "insane" in several cases might not

really be much more bizarre than the differences between human and Cerilian

elf psychology....



Gary

[geeman]

At 05:16 AM 4/30/2004 +0200, Raesene Andu wrote:



>Gary, have you ever considered collecting all your Awnsheghlien together

>in one file, along with the Awnshegh class and making it available as a

>download from birthright.net? Would be a valuable download for anyone

>visiting the site IMO, and saves us having to search through the list

>looking for each one.



I`m working on it. I`ve mentioned the project a couple of times in various

threads. I`ve been calling it "Mythic Monsters and Legendary Beings" and

is around 70,000 words/120 pages right now in a couple of Word documents,

including about a dozen new awnsheghlien and ersheghlien, a chapter

entitled "Death: The Final Adventure" that has at least another three

(maybe four or five) new BR-specific monsters, and the whole BP System

text. There is also a chapter dedicated to a long essay on how to design,

develop and write up new awnsheghlien and ersheghlien which is basically my

long-winded musings on the process, and may not be of interest to anyone

other than myself, but it`s in there nonetheless.



At present I`m debating whether I should just hand it out as a Word

document or if I should invest the time/energy/effort into learning how to

put together PDF files. I`m leaning towards doing that since I don`t think

the skill set might be nice to learn. Plus, I think I`d like to have a bit

more control over what actually gets put out into the world in a finished

edited format--to that extent that any such project is ever "finished" that is.



However, as I`m sure all the Design Team guys can attest, this kind of

thing is extraordinarily time consuming, particularly when one has to go

out and earn a living at the same time (not to mention taking time to

actually play RPGs) so I can`t really say when I`ll get it into some sort

of finished version. I want to write up at least three more awnsheghlien

or ersheghlien, and I need to finish up the monster descriptions for the

Death:tFA chapter, plus there is the inevitable and headachy

editing/formatting stuff to do, so it`ll probably be a good couple months.



Gary

[tcharazazel]

very cool can hardly wait for it as a Word or PDF file Tho if its kept on BR.net then there will always be an original copy so you don't have to worry about its integrety so much.

Would be fast healing and regeneration, ect

Regeneration (and several others) is not listed amongst the transformations
for the character class because it exists as an actual blood ability, so if
one wanted to give a scion/awn-/ersheghlien character regeneration one
could use that route. Since BP and transformations are interchangeable in
the system there really is no difference between putting a few BP into a
blood ability and putting BP into a transformation. Probably the only
other blood ability that might be apt for transformations is Poison Touch,
but in a couple of cases the other blood abilities might be used to portray
would are effectively the "monster powers" of awnsheghlien or
ersheghlien. I`m thinking of Invulnerability, for instance.

Yeah, the regeneration ect blood abilities would cover them being used as transformation, I was just offering a possible way to get around converting the BP system you use to the BCRS system.

What about going with the class offering blood powers starting with minor, then major and finally great every so many levels? Heheh, just a possibility, and would definately need to be tested to figure out what levels would be appropriate to get them and if the 20 or 10 levels of the class is appropriate then.

I like the idea of humanity, however, for Gary's current system it would be much easier to just have Insanity be a disadvantage.

>Good Reflex and Will saves (though you might allow awnshegh to pick any 2
>high saves appropriate to their creature type)

I don`t see awnshegh as particularly "strong willed" creatures on the
whole, and I have a little system to handle the involuntarily
transformation of scions of Azrai into awnshegh that uses will saves to
resist the temptation of Azrai`s blood, so giving awnsheghlien on the whole
the good will save progression doesn`t really work in that context. If one
had an awnshegh or ershegh theme that had strong will as an aspect one
could use the transformation that grants saving throw bonuses to reflect that.

One thing with regard to the saving throws, It makes sense for the awnshegh to not have strong Will saves, however, for the ershegh it would seem fine. Though, just leaving it to the DM's discretion then would make sense.

[geeman]

At 07:38 AM 4/30/2004 +0200, tcharazazel wrote:



>I like the idea of humanity, however, for Gary`s current system it would

>be much easier to just have Insanity be a disadvantage.



So I guess the $32,000 question is "What are the game mechanical effects of

Insanity?" and the $64,000 questions is "How can that be broken down into

one or more transformations like those in that character class description?"



Gary

[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by geeman@Apr 30 2004, 02:30 PM
At present I`m debating whether I should just hand it out as a Word document or if I should invest the time/energy/effort into learning how to put together PDF files.

It is very easy to convert from word to pdf, you just need a conversion program. I have one I use all the time, just a couple of clicks and you have a pdf file that looks identical to the original word document...

Look forward to seeing your final work anyway. I've been keeping copies of your awnshegh for a special surprise to spring on my players. I think they're getting a little cocky... and they haven't really encountered much in the way of awnshegh so far, just the one in Aduria.

[tcharazazel]

So I guess the $32,000 question is "What are the game mechanical effects of
Insanity?" and the $64,000 questions is "How can that be broken down into
one or more transformations like those in that character class description?"

After thinking about that some, it would probably end up similar to the disadvantage of Ability loss. So, -2 wis for each level or...

Have the first level of insanity be something like character has picked up small quirks, like talking to himself (heh, even arguing and loosing on occasion), or minor deminsia, ie he sometimes just jumps into some flashbacks of past battles ect. Basically it would be left open for DM discresion. Then Insanity 2 would have the -2 wisdom and the descriptor that those small quirks have begun to take over his everyday life, and Insanity 3 would be -4 wisdom and reality is just what he desides to make it be... heheh, ie loco. Though he could still be intelligent, like Hannible Lector hmm, actually Hanible seems like the only example that would disprove them getting any ability score decrease in Int or Wis... however, for most people suffering insanity they usually loose their will power over their percieved reality vs gthe eneral consenus of reality.

Just some ideas to get the Insanity more flushed out... heheh, dont want to get the books about pysche probs and post em here way too much crap.

[Osprey]

I don`t see awnshegh as particularly "strong willed" creatures on the
whole, and I have a little system to handle the involuntarily
transformation of scions of Azrai into awnshegh that uses will saves to
resist the temptation of Azrai`s blood, so giving awnsheghlien on the whole
the good will save progression doesn`t really work in that context. If one
had an awnshegh or ershegh theme that had strong will as an aspect one
could use the transformation that grants saving throw bonuses to reflect that.

Good point. Strong Fortitude seems like the obvious one for most awnshegh anyways, and Reflex, well...that really depends on the form taken doesn't it? Here is one area where I kinda like the BRCS version for awshegh, where hit die/class progression was based on what sort of creature template you are becoming...however, Monstrous Humanoid just seemed like the appropriate template for most awnshegh, as very few seem to be completely transformed into monsters, even the originals like Rhuobhe or the Gorgon.

Instead of making it an automatic thing what if insanity were a
disadvantage? It could have several stages of Insanity 1, Insanity 2, etc.
just like other disadvantages.

In general, I like that better than making it the norm for all awnshegh
since some would appear not to be insane in and of themselves. It`s just
that their transformation gives them what would be radically different
perspectives. Technically, what seems "insane" in several cases might not
really be much more bizarre than the differences between human and Cerilian
elf psychology....

Agreed. I think levels of Insanity are perfect examples of the disadvantages that many take on as a result of the mutative process of becoming a monster. Even ershegh might realistically have to struggle with the loss of humanity (or pure animalism, whichever is appropriate), though whether this becomes insanity or just more like their new form is debatable (like the Treant becoming "treeish" in mentality, for example).

So I guess the $32,000 question is "What are the game mechanical effects of
Insanity?" and the $64,000 questions is "How can that be broken down into
one or more transformations like those in that character class description?"

Gary

Well, no quick answer for that one, but then again, it wasn't a quick thing to make the awnshegh class either, was it?

As insanity has thousands of varieties and flavors, it is yet another messy issue that requires a great deal of DM discretion, and customization for each awnshegh. One idea is to create different paths of insanity based on general categories: Obsessive-Compulsive, Paranoia, MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder), Mania, Delusional, Psychotic, Bipolar...to name a few with modern psych terms. Then you could scale each with several degrees of intensity, much like blood abilities (3-4 levels each?), and allow an awnshegh to either choose the next level of an existing insanity, or choose level 1 of yet another derangement.

D&D unfortunately is of little help: they lumped all insanity together into one generic category, at least for the Insanity spell effect, and said it acts as a permanent Confusion spell. Yippee. <_<

[irdeggman]

There is a whole section on Sanity in UA. Pages 194-210 and it is OGC too.

[geeman]

At 05:32 PM 4/30/2004 +0200, Osprey wrote:



>Strong Fortitude seems like the obvious one for most awnshegh anyways, and

>Reflex, well...that really depends on the form taken doesn`t it?



That`s true, the fast reflex save is less easily justified than the fast

fortitude save. In general, I don`t have a particularly good thematic

justification for this. I generally equate the awnshegh/ershegh with a

sort of generalized "monster class" that has both fast fortitude and reflex

saves. It does have a bit to do with the actual use of

awnsheghlien/ersheghlien characters. When it gets right down to it, reflex

saves can prevent such iconic characters as awnsheghlien and ersheghlien

from falling into a pit or being hit by some of the less heroic

attacks. Generally, of course, a fast reflex save is assumed to have to do

with the speed or agility of such characters, but game mechanically all it

means is the ability to avoid certain types of situations. The Gorgon

isn`t a speedy guy, but he`s an ultimate expression of physical ability,

and shouldn`t just stumble into a tiger trap.



>

So I guess the &#036;32,000 question is "What are the game

>mechanical effects of Insanity?" and the &#036;64,000 questions is

>"How can that be broken down into one or more transformations like

>those in that character class description?"

>

>

> Well, no quick answer for that one, but then again, it wasn`t a quick

> thing to make the awnshegh class either, was it? ;)



That`s for sure.



>As insanity has thousands of varieties and flavors, it is yet another

>messy issue that requires a great deal of DM discretion, and customization

>for each awnshegh. One idea is to create different paths of insanity

>based on general categories: Obsessive-Compulsive, Paranoia, MPD (Multiple

>Personality Disorder), Mania, Delusional, Psychotic, Bipolar...to name a

>few with modern psych terms. Then you could scale each with several

>degrees of intensity, much like blood abilities (3-4 levels each?), and

>allow an awnshegh to either choose the next level of an existing insanity,

>or choose level 1 of yet another derangement.

>

> D&D unfortunately is of little help: they lumped all insanity

> together into one generic category, at least for the Insanity spell

> effect, and said it acts as a permanent Confusion spell. Yippee. <_<



After giving this a little thought and looking through the Insanity chapter

of UA that Irdeggman pointed out, here`s the kind of thing I think might be

the best way to handle insanity using the proposed awnshegh character

class. First, it should be written up as disadvantages. Second, the types

of insanity should each be described separately, otherwise it turns into

its own little subset of the disadvantage process which is already its own

little subset of the character class special ability feature--and that just

gives me a headache.... In any case, the particular forms of insanity

could be written up individually. As long as one can come up with an

appropriate game mechanical effect and scope, it`s a valid disadvantage

"tree". For instance:



Phobia 1: When confronted by a particular type of creature or situation you

must make a DC 15 will save or behave as if shaken. The type of creature

or situation must be fairly common; cats, heights, water, enclosed spaces, etc.



Phobia 2: When confronted by the object of your phobia you become shaken,

and must make a DC 15 will save to avoid being frightened.



Phobia 3: When confronted by the object of your phobia you become shaken,

and must make a DC 15 will save to avoid being panicked.



Phobia 4: When confronted by the object of your phobia you become shaken,

and must make a DC 15 will save to avoid falling into a catatonic state of

emotional collapse in which you are unable to respond in any rational,

intelligent fashion so long as you are confronted by the object of your phobia.



Phobia 5+: The DC of your will save to avoid the results of your phobia is

increased by 5 points to DC 20. Further use of this disadvantage increases

the DC of the will save by another 5 points.



Other forms of insanity could be written up in a similar, generalized

way. "Obsession" as a disadvantage, for instance, might require a will

save or it will attract the attention of the character to the detriment of

all other activities. The first level of "Amnesia" might result in a -2 to

all knowledge checks followed by subsequently more dire affects to such skills.



I`ll fiddle around with these in the next couple of days to see what kinds

of things might come up. Are there any other forms of insanity that might

be useful enough to describe in the class write up?



Gary