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  1. #11
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 03:43 PM 4/29/2004 +0200, Osprey wrote:



    >Gary, is there any way the class could be converted from Blood Points

    >(yeah, I know you`re a huge proponent of BP, but humor me) to the revised

    >BRCS system? I would like to see if this couldn`t be adopted there.



    Without BP? Impossible!



    On the other hand... I suppose one could just get rid of the "Bonus BP"

    special ability description and replace it with the Transformation ability,

    and make that special ability occur every level rather than every other

    level. That doesn`t address the issue of awnshegh (and ershegh,

    presumably) having more blood abilities and more powerful blood abilities

    than their bloodline strength would allow, but that could be handled by

    making one of the transformations effects possible the ability to get a new

    blood ability to increase the power of an existing one:



    Blood Ability 1: You gain a new blood ability at minor power level.

    Blood Ability 2+: You improve an existing minor blood ability to major, or

    one of your major blood abilities to great.



    That doesn`t look balanced IMO, since the aforementioned BP system assigns

    3BP to each of those power levels (minor, major, great) so

    1BP=transformation using the above transformation effects would be a pretty

    good bargain.



    Replacing the Bonus BP special ability with a Transformation every level

    also slows down the amount of abilities one gains from 1.5 transformations

    (or 0.5 transformations and 1 BP) per level to 1 transformation/level, but

    it seems incorrect to give the class two transformations every other level

    if for no other reason than it would look stupid on the table. One could

    scale up the transformation effects a bit to try to address the rate at

    which the powers increase (and equate them to the blood ability improvement

    described above.) The first Damage Reduction transformation, for instance,

    could start at 2/-- rather than 1/-- and later transformations could bump

    that to 4/--, 6/--, etc. Personally I think the ones presented are pretty

    well balanced against existing character class special abilities and after

    having spent a lot of time balancing them with that in mind I am not going

    rewrite the whole thing again at a new power scale as an experiment...

    though anyone who wants to is free to give it a shot, of course.



    Gary

  2. #12
    3 Things i noticed were missing, had a couple ideas for them.

    Immunity:
    Nightvision: per ??
    Water Breathing: You are able to breathe underwater per the ???
    Immunity shoudl probably go in stages from Resistance to immunity

    Nightvision would really be like Low-Light Vision with the upgrade to Darkvision

    Water Breathing would be as per the spell or just have them grow gills
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  3. #13
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    On the other hand... I suppose one could just get rid of the "Bonus BP"
    special ability description and replace it with the Transformation ability,
    and make that special ability occur every level rather than every other
    level. That doesn`t address the issue of awnshegh (and ershegh,
    presumably) having more blood abilities and more powerful blood abilities
    than their bloodline strength would allow, but that could be handled by
    making one of the transformations effects possible the ability to get a new
    blood ability to increase the power of an existing one:
    I'd prefer to ditch the extra blood abilities they had in 2e, and instead fold them into the monster-type's special abilities...whether they come from the form or the blood really becomes a fuzzy distinction for awnshegh anyways, doesn't it? This could work especially well since many original awnshegh abilities were "custom built" to work with their monstrous form. For example, the Troll could possibly get Regeneration as a Transformation ability rather than a blood ability, and many types of creatures have Poison as a natural ability.

    Beyond that, do awnshegh really need extra blood abilities anyways, as all of them have major, great, or true bloodlines of significant strength already?

  4. #14
    Heheh, time to add a few more transformation abilities then.

    Such as fast healing and regeneration

    maybe a version of the animal affinity blood abilities as the spider has spider as his animal affinity while azrai technically only has snake as his animal

    long life as per the the blood ability or epic feat extended life span (add 1/2 to the max result of your race's max age modifier to your normal age categories, ie humans middle age = 58 instead of 38 old = 73 instead of 53 and venerable = 90 instead of 70.)
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  5. #15
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    5. Since there was no awnshegh character class in the original BR system
    one of the things that would appear to have been done in several cases was
    to assume that the character was levelling up as a fighter. That`s not
    always the case, of course, but in the cases in which it is true the
    awnshegh class is very much like a fighter in several respects (HD, BAB,
    fortitude save, skill points)
    The attributes for a monstrous humanoid are also extremely relevant, and probably more accurate for a 3.5 awnshegh: High BAB, Good Reflex and Will saves (though you might allow awnshegh to pick any 2 high saves appropriate to their creature type), low skill points (2 per level), and d8 Hit Dice.

    Considering that the awnshegh also gets a monstrous advantage as well, this might be plenty of good stuff for the class.

    After thinking on it, I'd say go with 1 Transformation per level and 1 Disadvantage every other level for the non-BP Awnshegh/Ershegh class. After all, all of the featured awshegh seem far more advantaged than disadvantaged, their major disadvantages being a massive social stigma rather than physical disabilities...though psychological disabilities resulting from the transformation are very appropriate (like the Spider's insanity).

    Ha ha, ever consider having a Humanity rating for awnshegh? Or the opposite, a Monstrosity rating? :lol: Might be fun to keep track of their humanity slipping away...

    Osprey

  6. #16
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I think that this could work out:
    • Keep Gary's system, with the change of "any two saves high".
    • Use Osprey's idea as follows:
      • Awnshegh have an Derangement/Insanity/Madness/[whatever] score equal to their Awnshegh level.
      • The difference between an Awnshegh [whatever] and Wisdom scores would give some effects, which would be mixed blessings mostly (good thingies with bad side-effects).
      • When [whatever] score equals Wisdom score, Awnshegh is utterly mad.

  7. #17
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Not all Awnsheghlien can be considered insane though. The Gorgon isn't insane, nor is the Raven, Magian, Siren, and so on. Even Rhuobhe isn't insane, he just doesn't like humans much.

    But then you have a lot that are... Chimaera, Serpent, Spider, Lamia, Hag, etc

    Then there are others that are just animals, either starting out that way, or reduced in intelligence until they can no longer be consider human in any way... Wolf, Boar, Basalisk, etc
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  8. #18
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    A good idea, the Awnshegh class though...

    Gary, have you ever considered collecting all your Awnsheghlien together in one file, along with the Awnshegh class and making it available as a download from birthright.net? Would be a valuable download for anyone visiting the site IMO, and saves us having to search through the list looking for each one.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  9. #19
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:20 PM 4/29/2004 +0200, Osprey wrote:



    >I`d prefer to ditch the extra abilities they had in 2e, and instead fold

    >them into the monster-type`s special abilities...whether they come from

    >the form or the blood really becomes a fuzzy distinction for awnshegh

    >anyways, doesn`t it?



    It`s fuzzy where the individual blood abilities come from, but since

    several awnsheghlien have more blood abilities and blood abilities at power

    levels beyond their bloodline score it appears that in certain cases at

    least some have to come from the transformation--unless there is some whole

    other system in the concept that is undefined by the original materials.



    >This could work especially well since many original awnshegh abilities

    >were "custom built" to work with their monstrous form. For

    >example, the Troll could possibly get Regeneration as a Transformation

    >ability rather than a blood ability, and many types of creatures have

    >Poison as a natural ability.



    Exactly. In fact, that`s pretty much one of the base justifications for

    the whole BP document. It does allow for more articulated and customized

    blood abilities for scions, but that`s incidental to the fact that it

    allows for more customized awnsheghlien and ersheghlien.



    Gary

  10. #20
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:33 PM 4/29/2004 +0200, tcharazazel wrote:



    >Heheh, time to add a few more transformation abilities then.

    >

    >Would be fast healing and regeneration, ect



    Regeneration (and several others) is not listed amongst the transformations

    for the character class because it exists as an actual blood ability, so if

    one wanted to give a scion/awn-/ersheghlien character regeneration one

    could use that route. Since BP and transformations are interchangeable in

    the system there really is no difference between putting a few BP into a

    blood ability and putting BP into a transformation. Probably the only

    other blood ability that might be apt for transformations is Poison Touch,

    but in a couple of cases the other blood abilities might be used to portray

    would are effectively the "monster powers" of awnsheghlien or

    ersheghlien. I`m thinking of Invulnerability, for instance.



    To be honest, from my POV, transformations and BP are essentially the same

    thing. They are articulated in a way that might make them look like

    different concepts, but in terms of balance, effect, etc. they really are

    pretty much interchangeable. In fact, BP are sort of a subset of

    transformations with transformations representing the generalized system

    that handles a broad range of effects, and BP only those abilities that are

    related to bloodline derivations.



    Gary

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