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Thread: Shadowworld
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01-15-1998, 02:24 PM #1KAI BESTEGuest
Shadowworld
Hi all
I'm currently planning the next adventures for my campaign. One of
the characters wants to go to the Shadowworld, and she has good
arguments to convince the others so they'll probably join her. So
what I'm planning is this very trip. The characters have found a
device to create a gate to the Shadowworld. What they don't know is
that this gate will be very short lived, and (surprise, surprise) only
one way (the device, a small cube, melts away after being used). This
means they have to find their own way back into the world of the
living. The reason why they want to go there is to rescue a lost soul
trapped somewhere (they only have clues where exactly).
Now, what I'm asking you:
What exactly does the Shadowworld look like? Any ideas? I know the
landscape is the same, but what about buildings? A guess some ruins
could be intact in the Shadowworld, or the other way round. And what
about the light? Probably dark and gloomy, eternal twilight.
The most important thing is, I want to fill the Shadowworld with
something. So far I have come up with ruined towns inhabited by
phantoms and ghosts, but I don't want to overdo it. Any idea what a
settlement of living people (or halflings) would look like?
Filling the Shadowworld only with undead is not only boring, but
predictable.
I would appreciate any input.
Kai
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01-15-1998, 05:21 PM #2Neil BarnesGuest
Shadowworld
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, KAI BESTE wrote:
> The most important thing is, I want to fill the Shadowworld with
> something. So far I have come up with ruined towns inhabited by
> phantoms and ghosts, but I don't want to overdo it. Any idea what a
> settlement of living people (or halflings) would look like?
> Filling the Shadowworld only with undead is not only boring, but
> predictable.
One problem with filling the place with too many undead is that it
turns into a hack & slash type of place.
Suggestions: In the campaign I'm playing in, when our PCs entered the
Shadow World we were persued by some sort of roaring sucking pit that
moved through the ground. It may have had teeth, I forget the details.
We never stuck around to find out any more.
Also perhaps those undead which do wonder the SW have some
characteristics in common - Armies which were betrayed by their
commanders, now stalking the Shadow World looking for revenge.
neil
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01-15-1998, 05:28 PM #3Michael Andrew CullinghaGuest
Shadowworld
> Now, what I'm asking you:
> What exactly does the Shadowworld look like? Any ideas? I know the
> landscape is the same, but what about buildings? A guess some ruins
> could be intact in the Shadowworld, or the other way round. And what
> about the light? Probably dark and gloomy, eternal twilight.
> The most important thing is, I want to fill the Shadowworld with
> something. So far I have come up with ruined towns inhabited by
> phantoms and ghosts, but I don't want to overdo it. Any idea what a
> settlement of living people (or halflings) would look like?
> Filling the Shadowworld only with undead is not only boring, but
> predictable.
> I would appreciate any input.
>
> Kai
What I did when my players decided to venture there was the
following...
- - red dust clouds fill the air, obscuring sun slightly and the
moon. The latter made my scion of Vorynn's Travel ability
useless.
- - weather was perpetually fall-winter with just below freezing
temperatures.
- - in the equivalent lands to The Burrows, I placed a large halfling
stronghold named Hope's Home.
- - most of the continent is devoid of people, although a few
scattered settlements exist.
- - water is drinkable, although it tastes foul.
- - Hide in Shadows ability gains +5%.
- - my players did manage to find a lich lord's home, Fieldarr
Castle, that is located to the south-west of the Vampire's
Hold near a ruined town called Datanoz.
- - ancient battle sites exist in several places. My players
encountered a Vision (from D&D Companion Set) in one.
- - undead armies occasionally battle each other or are seen
marching across the lands.
These are most of the changes that I made for the brief
adventure that my players had there. Essentially they were
seeking out the SW's analog of the Great Library (located
in Anuire City's analog, Melinuire) and attempted to take
a short cut through a portal known to exist in the lich's
castle while the lich was campaigning. Unfortunately, they
decided to loot the place and the lich teleported back and
"pressed" them into service (to recover a tome which he could
not due to the likelihood of his "great and powerful presence
attracting unwanted attention"). They did this and the lich
released them (LE type who didn't actually care about a few
pesky low-level characters). Unfortunately, the lich is
a vassal of the Vampire, and the tome contains information
on creating large scale portals between the SW and Cerilia.
Mike
P.S. For the poll:
Age: 22
Role-playing Experience: 13 years (D&D, TMNT, TS SI, AD&D
(Al Qadim, Birthright, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk,
Mystara, Planescape, Ravenloft))
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Occupation: Computer Science Student, University of Calgary
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01-20-1998, 12:30 PM #4KAI BESTEGuest
Shadowworld
Thanks to those who responded to my questions. I did not get as much
replies as I had hoped for, though. In the meantime I've come up with
some other ideas and questions.
The rulebook states that some spells draw upon the Shadowworld to
work. Examples are dimension door, shadow walk, maybe shadow
monsters... Question: how do these spells operate in the Shadowworld?
Do they draw upon stuff from Cerilia? From the Shadowworld? Or some
even darker place?
Now, I got some new ideas. If anybody out there on the list knows "The
Stone of Tears" by Terry Goodkind, have you tried using ideas from
the book? It should fit in nicely.
BTW, do you still accept stuff for the netbook? I finally filled
in the last missing parts of the background story of a NPC and a
sword.
'nuff said for now
Kai
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01-20-1998, 01:44 PM #5DarkstarGuest
Shadowworld
KAI BESTE wrote:
>
> BTW, do you still accept stuff for the netbook? I finally filled
> in the last missing parts of the background story of a NPC and a
> sword.
Yes send anything you have to me or the list and I will add it to my
page. I am currently in the process of updating everthing though so it
may take a while to be added.
- --
Ian Hoskins
e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html
From the Darkness we came,
and to the Darkness we will return.
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01-20-1998, 02:04 PM #6
Shadowworld
>Thanks to those who responded to my questions. I did not get as much
>replies as I had hoped for, though. In the meantime I've come up with
>some other ideas and questions.
>The rulebook states that some spells draw upon the Shadowworld to
>work. Examples are dimension door, shadow walk, maybe shadow
>monsters... Question: how do these spells operate in the Shadowworld?
>Do they draw upon stuff from Cerilia? From the Shadowworld? Or some
>even darker place?
Hmmm... I think that "regents" in the Shadowworld cast similar spells
like in Cerillia, perhaps establishing special magical devices to do so.
Realm Spells need the land itself to work, so a regent from Cerillia
can't
cast them, exept he owes appropriate holdings in the Shadowworld. So
there is no
energie drawn from Cerillia.
I think this powersource is located in the Shadowworld
>BTW, do you still accept stuff for the netbook? I finally filled
>in the last missing parts of the background story of a NPC and a
>sword.
>
Hmmmm, I am working on a few warcards for undead units.
I try to finish them in one or two weeks
Manni
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
You need warcards?
Have a look at http://www.student.uni-augsburg.de/~voelkman/warcard.html
E-Mail: Manfred.Voelk@student.uni-augsburg.de
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01-21-1998, 04:32 PM #7
Shadowworld
At 01:30 PM 1/20/98 CET, KAI BESTE(BESTE@jerry.iued.uni-heidelberg.de)wrote:
>
>
>Now, I got some new ideas. If anybody out there on the list knows "The
>Stone of Tears" by Terry Goodkind, have you tried using ideas from
>the book? It should fit in nicely.
>
Take a look at the Netbook (URL is at the bottom of my sig), under Humanoid
Magic Items, you will find the "Collars of Obedience" (from yours truly).
These are based on the collars from Mr. Goodkind's work (with a little of
Jordan's Wheel of Time thrown in).
>
>BTW, do you still accept stuff for the netbook? I finally filled
>in the last missing parts of the background story of a NPC and a
>sword.
>
New stuff is always welcome for the Netbook. Send submissions to "Darkstar
", and he will handle the rest.
Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)
"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-
BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html
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01-22-1998, 08:42 PM #8Mark A VandermeulenGuest
Shadowworld
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, KAI BESTE wrote:
> The rulebook states that some spells draw upon the Shadowworld to
> work. Examples are dimension door, shadow walk, maybe shadow
> monsters... Question: how do these spells operate in the Shadowworld?
> Do they draw upon stuff from Cerilia? From the Shadowworld? Or some
> even darker place?
I would say that they draw upon stuff from the Shadow World even in the
shadow world, but that such spells cast in the Shadow World are must
harder to control: the forces they evoke are much harder to control so
near to their source, the natural entropy and chaos of the place make the
duration of such spells much shorter, but can potentially greatly increase
their range. And I would make any wizard foolish enough to cast Shadow
Monsters in the Shadow World roll to control her monsters as though they
were summoned elementals, and probably with a substancial penalty based on
how tired/injured she was or on how long she had been in the Shadow World.
By the way, I see the Shadow World as a combination of a dark reflection
of Cerilia, but also sort of a tangible manifestation of the
unconscious--probably the result of reading Jung at an impressionable age.
Many of the dark things that are in it are there because we fear them in
the collective unconscious (if I may play fast and loose with that term).
In addition, the personal unconscious of the people in the Shadow World
can actually manipulate the fluid material of that world, bringing into
existance that which they fear. Halflings can manipulate the Shadow World
because they have greater control or understanding of their unconscious. I
would liken it to what I believe is called "sensate dreaming," being alert
and in control of your own dreams, an active participant rather than just
a passive bystander. I see the Shadow World as a realm of spirit and
possibility, given form only by its closeness to Cerilia, and by the fact
that Cerilian visitors EXPECT it to have form and shape, thus
unconsciously evoking those very things out of the fluid substance of the
plane. It also means that a party can be fighting a Shadow Spirit, and one
will see a skeleton, one will see it as a giant snake, one as a rat-headed
female, and a fourth as a slimy, palid frog with cold, blood-red eyes
(don't ask). It's only when the Shadow Spirit steps into the Cerilian
plane that it becomes fixed, locked into one shape and substance by the
nature of the material world.
I have my own theories about the denizens of the Shadow World.
Most are simply evoked beings, brought into existance due to the
perceptions and unconscious expectations of visitors, as well as dreaming
people in the plane of Cerillia, which is so "close" by (and becomes
closer during dreams as the spirit stretches out of the body towards the
"spirit world"--which houses the living gods and their realms, and
which seers contact for their presenscient dreams--and occasionally
intersects the shadow world, giving rise to nightmares). These evoked
beings have only very limited life spans, quickly devolving back into the
fluid material of the plane if not reinforced: these are the spirits that
are pulled into corpses and skeletons upon the casting of "raise dead"
spells. Other denizens of the plane include self-willed beings from the
material world who crossed over and decided to stay, trading off the form
and substance of material life for potentially near-eternal life. They
retain their spirits from their material bodies, and can therefore evoke
for themselves new bodies, and even servants, out of the planar stuff, but
as their material bodies soon decay and die in the Shadow World they find
it very hard to enter and operate in the material world. The third and
final class of residents in my personal vision, are the original
inhabitants. They are rare, but are the most powerful. They are elves. Or
were. At one time in the far distant past, so long go that no elf
remembers, and few even know the story (and DO NOT tell it to ANY
non-elf), the Shadow World and the Material World were one and the same,
and the elves and the Great Shadows were one and the same people. But the
people were split, and some took to evil ways, and in the end a great
battle was fought (maybe the one with the Giants as depicted in KotGD),
and great magics were wrought to rend the world asunder, trapping the
"evil ones" into the Shadow World, and leaving the Material World safe
for Elvenkind. As elves do not sleep, they never intersect the Shadow
world the way humans sometimes do when dreaming. These Great Shadows have
survived over the ages, and become ever more powerful by devouring
each other, until only a few remain. They can never leave the Shadow
World, but they have great power, and can even effect the material world
in subtle ways, influencing people in their nightmares, and allowing their
servants through between the worlds when they can open portals. What their
goals are only they (and your local DM) can say.
Hows that for a depiction of the shadow world? From some of the things
that Ed and Carrie have said at GenCon, their ideas have at least some
similarity to mine, but of course I won't know how much until the Shadow
World supplement and adventure that Carrie told us she has just finished
comes out. Will we? Please? Just a hint?
Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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01-23-1998, 01:05 PM #9KAI BESTEGuest
Shadowworld
Mark A Vandermeulen wrote
> Hows that for a depiction of the shadow world? From some of the things
> that Ed and Carrie have said at GenCon, their ideas have at least some
> similarity to mine, but of course I won't know how much until the Shadow
> World supplement and adventure that Carrie told us she has just finished
> comes out. Will we? Please? Just a hint?
Sounds great. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
The monsters need not be the only thing created from the stuff of
nightmares. The characters might chance in a subtle way, and over
time become creatures of the Shadow World themselves if they stay too
long. The changes that happen to each character should be the ones
the character fears most. For example, the thing the mage IMC fears
most is getting old, despite the fact that she is only 21. In the
Shadow World over time her skin could turn a pale grey, she could get
more and more wrinkles etc.
The idea about the elves sounds good, but there could be two factions
of elves warring in the Shadow World. The first and more powerful one
would be the original inhabitants, the other faction consists of the
elves who came to the Shadow World as described in the novel
"Greatheart". Basically these are deceased elves who lost the way to
the stars (where the elves believe the dead souls go) and are now
trapped in the Shadow World.
Kai
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01-24-1998, 12:06 PM #10HSwiftfootGuest
Shadowworld
In a message dated 98-01-22 16:27:30 EST, you write:
>
Hmmm...this produces an interesting thought. Anyone familiar with the generic
"Shaman" supplement TSR published a couple years ago? I bought it thinking it
was cool to finally flesh out the Shaman class a little, but never really used
it because its concepts were difficult to incorporate into an existing game
world. Basically the premise is the "spirit world" does not really exist,
except in the collective unconscious of the people, therefore spirits are only
quasi-real, given form from the emotions and fears of the people who believe
in them. But they can and do have a direct affect on the real world, if
"summoned" and "appeased" properly and through the correct rituals and
cermonies. And they can also grant (limited) spells.
OK, here's the "what if" part: WHAT IF the Shadow World, although it does
contain real, honest-to-goodness undead and other life forms, also had some
fluidity and influence on the "collective unconscious" of folks in Cerilia, as
observed above. Fears and strong beliefs (i.e. ghosts, spirits, etc.) could
be made real if enough people believed in them, and if the boundaries between
the "real" world and the Shadow World were thin. Certain dreams, spirits,
visions etc. could be unconscious manifestations of the shadow world given a
touch of reality by the energy of the Shadow World. Logically, then,
halflings would make ideal shamans, able to tap into and control these
energies to varying degrees. A lot of the stuff in "Shaman" could then be
applicable to the halfling culture of BIRTHRIGHT, could it not? Halfling
shamans...an interesting concept, no?
Any thoughts or opinions out there on this?
Kevin Moss
"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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