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Thread: Chapter 7 Revision
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06-08-2004, 07:00 PM #81
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As am I... and since the Realm spell is available to Druids, it should be a class skill for them as well.
"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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06-09-2004, 06:21 AM #82
Scrying should be a class skill for anyone capable of scrying. If the scry skill is to be kept, it must be kept for normal scrying as well. It simply isn't worthwhile to have the skill only for a single realm spell.
This would make every major spellcasting class have Scry as a class skill: Bards, Clerics, Magicians, Sorcerers, and Wizards.
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06-09-2004, 07:23 AM #83
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I would make a case contrary to that. With a standard Scry spell, you are using arcane means to find a specific person, see/hear his environs within 10' and open a small portal through wich you can cast divinations. Since the spell is specifically targeted, and can be foiled by a variety of methods, it is only fitting that we keep that spell as written. Besides, the game mechanics forced the change to using a Will save instead of a fighter needing to put ranks into Scry to counter it.
In the case of a Scry Province, we are dealing with a different kettle of fish. The spell description states that it creates "many magical sensors that move throughout the province." Since there isn't a specific target, we can't use a Will save to counter this. It would be a case of the skill of the wizard or druid casting this spell to manage the large number of sensors and sort through the flood of information that comes back to them through the link.
It is this reasoning that forms the basis of my belief that the Realm spell should be skill based, and the normal spell will-save based."It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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06-09-2004, 07:54 AM #84
Actually, the strongest arguement you should use is that Bards, Clerics, Druids, Magicians and Sorcerors and Wizards, All have the Scry skill in 3.0. So, as we plan on keeping the skill, it should remain class skills for them. The reason why they had it as a class skill, was because they could cast scying spells.
"Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus
"Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius
"Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer
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06-09-2004, 08:55 AM #85
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Yes, but in 3.0 Scry was required to cast the Scry and Greater Scrying spells. Those were updated in 3.5 to eliminate the need for that specific skill. We can't update the Scry Province realm spell to use a Will save, since it isn't targeted on a specific person, so we must retain the skill for this application.
If only Arcane casters and Druids have access to the Scry Province spell, then the Scry skill should be limited to those classes as a class skill."It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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06-09-2004, 10:14 AM #86
Heheh, I meant that we keep the scry skill and spells the way they were in 3.0. Because bringn it back just for the realm spell, wouldnt be worth it.
"Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus
"Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius
"Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer
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06-09-2004, 03:41 PM #87
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I'd propose just the opposite. Drop the scry skill entirely. Rewrite the realm spell to match the scry spell more closely and probably switch to Knowledge (nature) as the skill to use to locate ley lines, etc. if that methodology is kept.
Going back to 3.0 is just wrong IMO. We are supposed to be changing/evolving to 3.5 not forcing a rewrite of the mechanics in 3.5 just to fit an idea based on a 3.0 mechanic that was changed. In 2nd ed finding these things (ley lines, etc.) wasn't allowed unless a character could cast the appropriate spell in the first place.Duane Eggert
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06-09-2004, 04:48 PM #88
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I agree, making this game 3.5-compatible is a high-priority, and reinstalling an old 3.0 skill for the sake of a single realm spell is not the way to go. Rewriting the realm spell would be a much cleaner solution. If people like the Scry skill and wish to keep it, houserule it like you are no doubt already houseruling it for the standard spells.
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06-09-2004, 11:09 PM #89
AND, there is a cleaner method in case you want to write such a spell: caster level checks! If the player has to succeed at a certain DC according to his attempt, that would be just fine, I believe...
Or, if you have to go skill-style, have him make a Spellcraft check: the skill is supposed to be used in understanding or utilising magical forces.
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02-27-2005, 04:57 PM #90
Just thought I'd post here and draw attention to this previous discussion on a revised Chapter 7, including some ideas for a realm spell conversion system and a few new realm spells.
Osprey
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