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Thread: Chapter 7 Revision
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04-26-2004, 09:42 PM #21My DM made the rule that you get when burning 1 bloodpoint 100 exp x the amount of RP you would get for burning 1 bloodpoint.
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04-26-2004, 09:53 PM #22
Here's the realm spell learning system I've adopted for my own BR campaign.
The Spellcraft DC to learn a Realm Spell is DC 15 + 2 per level of the realm spell being researched (so DC 17 through 33 for level 1-9 spells). I also integrated Raesene's suggestion a while back of lowering the research time to 1 week per level, though it still costs 1 GB per level of the spell (=1 GB per week of realm spell research). I found this to be more in proportion to the costs and times required for regular spells vs. realm spells. Failure on the spellcraft check means the money and time is spent, but the spell is not mastered. The researcher may not again attempt to learn the realm spell until he or she has gained a new spellcaster level (appropriate to the spell being learned, of course).
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04-26-2004, 10:07 PM #23
actually, you can increase the time for epic spells thats where i was getting the reason for the lower spellcraft DC. every 1 min up to 10 min = -2 DC. Every 1 day up to 100 days = -2 DC. This is on pages 88-92 in the Epic book.
So, if you have a spell require 32 days to cast, then it would have a -20 DC (for the first 10 min) and -64 DC for it requiring 32 days so a total of -84 DC to the spell craft check. Heheh, if you add in that others are helping...
The basic formula = 2 x spell slot level - 1. So it starts at for a 1st level slot -1 DC and it goes to -3 for 2nd level -5 for 3rd level ect.
Lets say 3 other spell casters (doesnt matter if theyre are divine or arcane) all throw in a 3rd level spell slot (either give up a spell or use an empty slot). Thats -5 DC per spell caster so a total of -15 to the spellcraft DC.
Thus far we got -99 DC to the spellcraft check... heheh
So how hard would it be to cast the spell depends on how powerful you would want to consider it really. If were considering a realm spell meant to affect a whole province... thats an area of what? roughly 30-50 square miles? so for ease lets say 40 square miles, or 115135952 ft^2. The DC to increase a spells radius by 100% is +4. So if we have a spell with a radius of 40' that would require... woah damn... oh about... hmm... not so easy to calculate as it grows rather fast... so it requires increasing the spell radius 22 times to get it to 167772160 ft^2 close enough really. so that means 22 x 4 = +88 to the spell craft DC. so now were at -11 DC for the spellcraft check.
EDIT: ok so fora province with 1000 square miles that would be 27878398812 ft^2. So it would take 29-30 (30 to go over it, 29 is just about 6 billion ft^2 shy.) multiples to cover it. Thus making the DC 116-120. (So to redo what was said, it would make the DC 49 for a specialist and DC 54 for a non specialist.)
if we increase the duration also, so the spell lasts for a month, instead of 1 min, then that would also increase the DC by +2 DC per 100% increase so... 46080 min in a 32 day month, and it requires 16 increases to get the spell to 65536 min so thats 16 x 2 = +32 to the spellcraft DC. So now were at a 22 DC spellcraft check.
If this spell is in the specialist school then tey would get a -5 to the DC so they would have a DC of 17. Heheh now that doesnt seem so tough.
It would also give the spell creation a cost of 9000 gp x 17 DC = 153000 gp and an exp cost of 6120.
This is just a basic example. the caster could always increase the casting time or the number of people helpin to cast the spell to further lower the DC, however, it should always have a Base cost probably just left at DC 10 so it would cost 9000 gp x 10 = 90000 gp and an exp cost of 3600 exp no matter how low they put the spell craft DC. Heheh, however, this would only be for creating an unknown realm spell.
For researching a known realm spell, keepin the exsisting system seems fine with me.
Finally, I noticed that the system is based on the 2ndE version... well thats good to know however, lots of things hav changed in the conversion of magic to the 3/3.5E.
So wouldnt it make sense to "update" the way the spell costs were determined also? Heh, were not talkin exact science here, just approximations of course, as we all have lives to lead
EDIT: What I was proposing here was only for in charadter creation of realm spells, not for creation of spells out of character. So, if a DM wants to make a spell for a certain character thats appropriate for him, you wouldnt use the method I'm proposing."Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus
"Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius
"Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer
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04-26-2004, 10:14 PM #24
Some very good stuff I see... B)
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04-26-2004, 10:29 PM #25
Here a quick idea for creating realm spell for you to discuss. I have to go to work now, but I'll get back to finishing this later
Creating Realm Spells
Level:
As normal spell
Gold/Regency:
Level 1-2: 1
Level 3-4: 2
Level 5-6: 4
Level 7-8: 8
Level 9-10: 10
Target Modifiers
Multiple targets: x0.5
Entire Province: x0.5
Holding: x1.0
Unit: x1.5
Ley Line: x1.5
Individual: x2.0
Target is willing: x0.5
Target is enemy: x2.0
Duration/Effect Modifiers
Instantaneous: x0.5
1 week+: x0.5
3 months: x1.0
Longer than 3 months: x1.5
Permanent1: x2.0
Gold Cost Modifiers
Material component < 500 gp x1.0
Material component 500-2000 gp x1.5
Material component > 2000gp x2.0
Regency Cost Modifiers
Multiple targets, single GB cost2 x2.0
1 Spells whose effects are permanent (such as mass destruction and raze) are considered permanent for the purposes of determining RP and GB cost.
2 When designing a spell that affects multiple targets, you may choose to have a single base GB cost, but increase the RP cost/target.Let me claim your Birthright!!
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04-26-2004, 10:37 PM #26
By the way, all the modifiers are to cost, the forums screw up the formatting, or this would be easier to see.
Let me claim your Birthright!!
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04-26-2004, 10:50 PM #27
A province is about 1000 square miles.
-----Original Message-----
From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of tcharazazel
Sent: 27. april 2004 00:08
To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Subject: Re: Chapter 7 Revision [36#2507]
This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
You can view the entire thread at:
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tcharazazel wrote:
actually, you can increase the time for epic spells thats where i was
getting the reason for the lower spellcraft DC. every 1 min up to 10 min
= -2 DC. Every 1 day up to 100 days = -2 DC. This is on pages 88-92 in
the Epic book.
So, if you have a spell require 32 days to cast, then it would have a
-20 DC (for the first 10 min) and -64 DC for it requiring 32 days so a
total of -84 DC to the spell craft check. Heheh, if you add in that
others are helping...
The basic formula = 2 x spell slot level - 1. So it starts at for a 1st
level slot -1 DC and it goes to -3 for 2nd level -5 for 3rd level ect.
Lets say 3 other spell casters (doesnt matter if theyre are divine or
arcane) all throw in a 3rd level spell slot (either give up a spell or
use an empty slot). Thats -5 DC per spell caster so a total of -15 to
the spellcraft DC.
Thus far we got -99 DC to the spellcraft check... heheh
So how hard would it be to cast the spell :) depends on how powerful
you would want to consider it really. If were considering a realm spell
meant to affect a whole province... thats an area of what? roughly 30-50
square miles? so for ease lets say 40 square miles, or 115135952 ft^2.
The DC to increase a spells radius by 100% is +4. So if we have a spell
with a radius of 40` that would require... woah damn... oh about...
hmm... not so easy to calculate as it grows rather fast... so it
requires increasing the spell radius 22 times to get it to 167772160
ft^2 close enough really. so that means 22 x 4 = +88 to the spell craft
DC. so now were at -11 DC for the spellcraft check.
if we increase teh duration also, so the spell lasts for a month,
instead of 1 min, then that would also increase the DC by +2 DC per 100%
increase so... 46080 min in a 32 day month, and it requires 16 increases
to get the spell to 65536 min so thats 16 x 2 = +32 to the spellcraft
DC. So now were at a 22 DC spellcraft check.
If this spell is in the specialist school then tey would get a -5 to
the DC so they would have a DC of 17. Heheh now that doesnt seem so
tough.
It would also give the spell creation a cost of 9000 gp x 17 DC =
153000 gp and an exp cost of 6120.
This is just a basic example. the caster could always increase the
casting time or the number of people helpin to cast the spell to further
lower the DC, however, it should always have a Base cost probably just
left at DC 10 so it would cost 9000 gp x 10 = 90000 gp and an exp cost
of 3600 exp no matter how low they put the spell craft DC. Heheh,
however, this would only be for creating an unknown realm spell.
For researching a known realm spell, keepin the exsisting system seems
fine with me.
Finally, I noticed that the system is based on the 2ndE version... well
thats good to know however, lots of things hav changed in the conversion
of magic to the 3/3.5E.
So wouldnt it make sense to "update" the way the spell costs
were determined also? Heh, were not talkin exact science here, just
approximations of course, as we all have lives to lead :)
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04-26-2004, 10:54 PM #28
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Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Apr 25 2004, 01:26 PM
- More of the info from Book of Magecraft on sources and leylines, + EXAMPLES!!
- New realm spells (I'll post info on these before finalising the revision)
- Random tables for determining NPC or PC realm spells known OR, at the very least a list of all the spells before their descriptions. Very useful as anyone who is looking up spells for their spellcaster knows.
- Expanding the info on magic potential to include info on restoring magic potential and so forth.
The suggestion of limiting house rules to BR.net has come up in other threads, and I think new spells (and magic items, NPCs, monsters etc.) are better of submitted to the site than to try gain some form of consensus on what spells to include and not. Where will the line be drawn? Can anybody have their spells included, will there be a poll for every single new spell, or will somebody simply decide what spells get included and not?
Personally I think what is mostly needed is more information on sources and ley lines. In particular the interaction between sources, armies, mundane actions etc. should be discussed and clarified.
Cheers,
E
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04-26-2004, 11:23 PM #29
That was the old BRCS That was pretty much just a straight conversion of the 2E material, no major additions.
I think the new version needs to add a little more material, and if that material has to come from house rules, then so be it.
A lot of the material I'm adding to this chapter however is just BoM stuff that was left out of the original BRCS that I think should be in there. As for the new spells, most are divine spells, especially those specific to one particular god. Some are spells originally left out of the BRCS for various reasons that were in the original material.
As for everyone getting their spells included, sure, I have no problem with that, the more the merrier. Post them here and if I think they're suitable for the BRCS, then in they go. We'll go with the format that Osprey suggested (so you need level, gold & regency cost, target, duration, and required holding).Let me claim your Birthright!!
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04-27-2004, 01:26 AM #30
so using your system then Raesene:
a level 1-2 spell would have a base cost of 1 Gold/RP x 0.5 to affect the entire province x 0.5 for instantaneous effect x 1.0 for costing <500 gp...
I'm not sure I'm getting that right... as it would be something like .25 Gold/RP... hmm, would you please give an example so I get it right? Thanks"Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus
"Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius
"Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer
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