Birthright's Planar System

[jimi]

Agreed TSR tried to link everything together under the Planescape banner, heck they even dropped a little piece of Cerillia into Ravenloft, but why is that a bad thing? The point has been made this detracts from the "BR-ness" of the setting, but the fact it exists in published material makes it de facto part of the setting.

The revised MotP still allows for movement between different Prime Material Planes (interestingly if I remember it right the method it uses is via the Plane of Shadow!). The cosmology of a particular world is just that world's view on the multiverse. The multiverse is not actually aligned in a Great Wheel (or in that Tree-thing they use in FR) so whatever view of the cosmos is appropriate to Aebrynis is only appropriate to Aebrynis!

All I'm saying is leave the hooks there.

WotC left enough hooks in MotP (Sigil etc) to keep the Planescape fans happy and also left the door open for moving between worlds, why not do the same for Birthtright 3E? The fact that the continuity is already established is a bonus.

[Lee]

In a message dated 7/23/02 8:26:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG writes:

<< jimi wrote:
Some food for thought.

1. The Planes were clearly part of 2E Birthright, the Sword of Roele in
particular used them as a major plot device and used a powerfulPlanar being
(the Monkey King) as an NPC. The Plancescape setting material cleary
refrences Aebrynis and the BR gods in several books (and acknowledges the
difficulties of the Shadow World). If the new conversion departs from this
established continuity then it runs the risk of seeming somehow less like an
"official" product. >>

Funny. I`m pretty sure I read that Cerilia/Aebrynnis were stated to be
cut off from the rest of the Planes.

<< 2. There are a wholw mess of people out there running Forgotten Realms,
Greyhawk etc. etc. if we "detach" from the standard cosmology and
established system we`re potentially cutting those people off from running
their parties though a "visit to Aebrynis" scenario which may in turn
encourage them to run more Birthright. If we want the setting to survive and
grow we need hooks to encourage more players, not take potential hooks for
other DMs out ! >>

That`s entirely up to the players and DM, isn`t it? I`ve been playing
this setting since it came out, and we`ve never had a desire, or seen a need
to hook in people from other worlds.

<< 3. Birthright is a "Dungeons & Dragons" Campaing Setting, if we
"lose" the connection to the wider D&D universe we run the risk of becoming
just another d20 setting ! >>

D&D (that is to say, TSR/WotC) let BR go years ago. Greyhawk is the
declared default for 3e. We _are_ just another D&D setting. The coolest
one, IMO.

Lee.

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[Trithemius]

Lee Hanna:
> Funny. I`m pretty sure I read that Cerilia/Aebrynnis
> were stated to be cut off from the rest of the Planes.

I recall that they say that portals to Aerbrynis are very very very rare
as most portals on Aerbrynis lead to the Shadow World. Slightly less
rare than portals to Athas perhaps, but still pretty darn rare. Its all
in the Planescape Planewalkers Guide IIRC.

> D&D (that is to say, TSR/WotC) let BR go years ago.
> Greyhawk is the declared default for 3e. We _are_ just
> another D&D setting. The coolest one, IMO.

Woo yeah! Tell it like it is! ;)

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

Daniel McSorely:
> This is not really a convincing argument. Some adventures
> for BR have a distinctly less BRish feel than the campaign
> setting material :) Warlock has an underdark, another one (I
> don`t recall which) features a couple of drow, and if Sword
> of Roele features an extraplanar being, it could easily be
> discounted like those other non-BRish elements.

Grrrarrr! Smash BR adventures!

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

jimi:
> Some food for thought.
>
> 1. The Planes were clearly part of 2E Birthright, the Sword
> of Roele in particular used them as a major plot device and
> used a powerfulPlanar being (the Monkey King) as an NPC. The
> Plancescape setting material cleary refrences Aebrynis and
> the BR gods in several books (and acknowledges the
> difficulties of the Shadow World). If the new conversion
> departs from this established continuity then it runs the
> risk of seeming somehow less like an "official" product.
>
> 2. There are a wholw mess of people out there running
> Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk etc. etc. if we "detach" from
> the standard cosmology and established system we`re
> potentially cutting those people off from running their
> parties though a "visit to Aebrynis" scenario which may in
> turn encourage them to run more Birthright. If we want the
> setting to survive and grow we need hooks to encourage more
> players, not take potential hooks for other DMs out !
>
> 3. Birthright is a "Dungeons & Dragons" Campaing Setting,
> if we "lose" the connection to the wider D&D universe we
> run the risk of becoming just another d20 setting !
>
> just my two cents worth :)

I would say: So what?

List discussion has already largely determined that if in order to
properly realise the setting using d20 we need to break with D&D canon
then so be it. I don`t care if Prince Avan will never meet Lidda the
Halfing, or if Haelyn won`t ever be ranked alongside Pelor or Erythnul.
I don`t think that the generic D&D setting (a.k.a. Greyhawk) needs to be
linked to or incorporated with the BR setting.

One final note: I like planehopping as much as the next guy (more
possibly) but I don`t think BR needs it.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[A_dark]

I do have the planes in my campaigns. All the stuff about Baator, Mt Celestia and all that shit, but the players and pretty much nobody in the world knows about these things. It is not an omission that no priest has the Astral sphere and it is not an accident that there are no known planehoppers dropping by (apart for rumours about Adriala the Dark or Rheulaan Greencloack that are up to the DM basically)

So, what I am trying to say is that for simplicity's sake and because I like the Great Wheel, my campaigns follow that multiverse idea, but there is NO way that ANY character will EVER get to go to the planes from Aebrynnis. There are only a handful of exceptions and they do not involve my PCs.

I do believe that there are sufficient references about the planes in the books. Both in the BoP when it lists the houses of the gods and the adventures "Warlock of the Stonecrown" and the "Sword of Roele". There are portals in those two adventures and creatures from the planes, a deva, some demons and stuff like that. But that does not mean that any PC will ever get to see what lies beyond. I have yet to allow my PCs to enter the Shadow World, let alone a whole different plane :P

[Peter Lubke]

On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 05:50, Lee Hanna wrote:

In a message dated 7/23/02 8:26:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG writes:

<< jimi wrote:
Some food for thought.

1. The Planes were clearly part of 2E Birthright, the Sword of Roele in
particular used them as a major plot device and used a powerfulPlanar being
(the Monkey King) as an NPC. The Plancescape setting material cleary
refrences Aebrynis and the BR gods in several books (and acknowledges the
difficulties of the Shadow World). If the new conversion departs from this
established continuity then it runs the risk of seeming somehow less like an
"official" product. >>

Funny. I`m pretty sure I read that Cerilia/Aebrynnis were stated to be
cut off from the rest of the Planes.

me too. but consistency hasn`t been a strong-point in D&D.


<< 2. There are a wholw mess of people out there running Forgotten Realms,
Greyhawk etc. etc. if we "detach" from the standard cosmology and
established system we`re potentially cutting those people off from running
their parties though a "visit to Aebrynis" scenario which may in turn
encourage them to run more Birthright. If we want the setting to survive and
grow we need hooks to encourage more players, not take potential hooks for
other DMs out ! >>

That`s entirely up to the players and DM, isn`t it? I`ve been playing
this setting since it came out, and we`ve never had a desire, or seen a need
to hook in people from other worlds.

<< 3. Birthright is a "Dungeons & Dragons" Campaing Setting, if we
"lose" the connection to the wider D&D universe we run the risk of becoming
just another d20 setting ! >>

D&D (that is to say, TSR/WotC) let BR go years ago. Greyhawk is the
declared default for 3e. We _are_ just another D&D setting. The coolest
one, IMO.


hoo yeah!

Lee.

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