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  1. #1
    Senior Member Elton Robb's Avatar
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    This poll is on the Birthright campiagn's planar cosmology. Since there is only a small amount of Gods, you get to give your voice on two choices:

    Should they be situated on the Great Wheel?

    Or Should the Gods have their own realms, and BR's cosmology picture be different?
    Regent of Medoere

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I once did some work on a BR planar system. I don't have a copy of the info, but it is somewhere in the mailing list achrives.

    Basically the realms of the gods were all on one plane, a vast ocean with an island for each god or power of Aebrynis.

    The actually planar system went something like this.

    Aebyrnis
    Barrier/etheral plane (seperate real and shadow)
    Shadow World
    Elemental Planes
    The Realm of the Dead
    The Astral Plane (links to other worlds beyond Aebrynis).
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  3. #3
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    I had to say that BR counts as a "standard" world for purposes of determining its cosmology.BR may work much differently than Greyhawk or Realms(due to the fact that a percentage of the population has the essence of a god in their veins),and that almost made me choose that it has its own cosmology.But the gods in BR do act like the gods in other worlds.That is what made me choose that it shares the planes with the gods from Faerun and Oerth.


    As far as I know,the only world that is odd like that is Dark Sun.It touches only the Astral and Ethereal Planes,which is why there are not too many PlaneWalkers from Athas.......

    Just my two bits.
    "Victory has a thousand fathers,defeat is an orphan."

  4. #4
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I am not entirely certain I would consider BR a standard world. Mainly due to the SW, it has a lot of effects on things, especially summonings. When casting a summoning spell, the creature summoned has to pass though the SW first before arriving of Aebrynis. This would tend to suggest to me that Aebrynis is not linked to any of the other planes, except via the SW, so there is a barrier between Aebrynis and the rest of the universe.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

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    Ravenloft works like that as well......Part of it is because of the Dark Powers but also because of its location in the Deep Ethereal.


    I can see both sides of the discussion and agree with both.But as far as it goes in my campaigns,it touches all the Planes just as Greyhawk or Realms does.
    "Victory has a thousand fathers,defeat is an orphan."

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    Refering to the Book of Priestcraft, you'll note that they included the god's plane and domain:

    Avani: The Gleaming Spire/Mechanus
    Erik: Nature's Rest/Outlands
    Haelyn: Honor's Glory/Mount Celestia
    Belinik: The Striving/Pandemonium(2nd Layer)
    Nesirie: The Waves of Grief/Elysium(Thalasia)
    Sera: The Marketplace Eternal/The Outlands
    Cuiraécen: Cuiraécen's Festhall/Ysgard
    Eloéle: Endless Maze/Pandemonium(1st Layer)
    Kriesha: The Steadfast Chill/Baator(Stygia)
    Laerme: Songsheight/Arborea(Olympus)
    Ruornil: The Silver Lands/Outlands

    So yes, the gods are on the planes of Planescape, however I don't think anybody in BR understands the mechanic of the planes per se, so the cosmology of BR probably consists only of the 11 god's realms, the Shadow World, the Elemental Planes, the Ethereal and the Astral(these two probably only known to sages) and of course, Aebrynnis itself, at the center.

    Hope that helps.
    Respectfully submitted,

    Temujin,
    Would-be ruler of you all. =)

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I'm aware that in the BoP the god's realms are mentioned as being on the various planes that you have listed, but at the time I think TSR was trying to link all settings to Planescape, so I think we can disregard this when designing the BR cosmology. (I would keep the names though...) Below is my original post to the mailing list, which I have finally been able to find (note that my idea changed somewhat after this). Comments anyone?


    1. The Elemental Plane of Fire
    2. The Elemental Plane of Earth
    3. The Plane of Positive Energy Aebrynis
    4. The Etheral Plane
    5. The Plane of Negitive Energy The Shadow World
    6. The Elemental Plane of Water
    7. The Elemental Plane of Air
    8. The Land of the Dead Dominion of the Cerilian
    Gods
    9. The Astral Plane Passage to other
    worlds/dimension etc not related to Cerilia

    The Land of the Dead is a vast ocean of icy cold water that is filled with the twisted souls of the damned and the faithless. In this ocean are islands where each of the Cerilian gods have their domains. I have used the same names as in the BOP for these, but added in some descriptions.
    Those who are true to their gods are permitted access to their gods realms for eternity. This is about 1-3% of worshippers, depending on the god.
    Those who worship a god, but have strayed in their faith in some way are usually reincarnated for another chance at life. This covers most of the god's worshippers.
    Those who betray their gods (Kill priests, destroy temple, etc) are damned for all eternity and cast into the ocean of grief. This is usually very few.
    Those who choose not to worship any god at all, or worship a
    non-existant power are also condemned to the ocean.

    Each of the gods worshipped on Cerilia has an island or continent (depending on number of worshipers) in the ocean. This island increases in size as the god's power power grows, or more of their worshippers are allow to entire. The land of the dead has no defined size though so the exapnding size of these regions does not diminish the avalible space on
    the plane. Because I only have a short amount of time I will only list the domains of the human gods here.

    Avani: The Gleaming Spire.
    This is a great city in the khinasi style, built around an peaceful
    oasis. Avani's palace which is the cities center piece is a tall spire of gold in the centre of the oasis, build around it are plaza's, librarys, bathhouses and all the luxuries afforded to the richest sultans of Cerilia. Those honoured worshippers who follow the light of reason during their lives and never stray from the path set out by Avani are permitted access to an eternity of luxury. It is a land of warmth, and peace where no battle occur and nothing is out of place. Surrounding the city is a large desert that eventually leads down to the ocean.

    Erik: Nature's Rest.
    Erik's domain is a continent sized island that is almost an exact copy of Cerilia, except Cerilia as it would have been without any intelligent beings living on it. Food is easy to come by and the worshippers of Erik lucky enough to make it here travel the lands marvelling at the natural wonders.

    Haelyn: Honour's Glory.
    Only the most just and noble beings may enter the halls of Haelyn's castle, all others are either cast into the ocean or more likely reincarnated. Honour's Glory is a land of rolling hills and grassland, dotted with castles and manors for the greatest of Haelyn's heros. It represents Anuire as Haelyn would like to see it where all follow the law and war are fought to rule of warfare. Haelyn spends his time here challenging the greatest and most noble generals of Anuire and other lands to mock battles among the faithful who have been granted life in
    this realm. These battles resemble giant games of chess where none are killed or injured. Haelyn sees life as a chance for each being to gain his or her full pontential so will only grant access to his realm to those who he thinks are worthy.

    Belinik: The Striving.
    Unlike Haelyn's realm, the land that is home to Belinik's faithful is a gloomy and desolute place where warriors who served him in life now fight for him in death. Here the strongest battle the weak to gain their lord's notice. Belinik allows any who wish to enter access to his realm, but they must fight for their survival. Those who do not succeed are cast out, and returned to Cerilia for another chance at life while those
    powerful enough to survive here may remain. In the Striving the warriors must battle their way up the rungs of power. For those who are at the top there are luxuries and wealth beyound the imagining while those at the bottom are condemn to live in the cold hills that cover this realm.

    Nesirie: The Waves of Grief.
    The domain of the goddess of the sea is a small group of islands that rise up out of the ocean of grief like jagged spikes. Each is carved into fantastic towers and castles. These buildings are home to Nesirie's faithful, who are live surrounded by all the wealth the sea can provide. They eat the finest seafood, and live in grottos of sand, lined with pearls and feathersoft seaweed. Nesirie has few true worshippers, and only a few of these are every allowed into her domain.
    Nesirie's faithful are also the only ones who are permitted to travel the ocean, usually in boats native to their homelands. They are not permitted to set foot in the domains of the other gods though.

    Sera: The Market Place Eternal.
    As goddess of wealth and luck, sera's domain is devoted to just that. It is a vast city that streaches of miles in each direction where those who have worshipped Sera in life may continue their pursuits in death. For craftsmen such as woodworks and armourers they can work here with the greats who have come before them and are allowed umlimited access to the
    finest materials to create great works. The city in fact resembles a vast market places where traders and merchants barter for their goods. It is a happy and entertaining place to spend eternity. Sera allows only her most faithful worshippers entrance to her realm, as well as the greatest craftsmen and merchants.

    Cuiraecen: Cuiraecen's Feasthall.
    This is a place of warrior. A gigantic hall that sit on the top of a
    steep sided hill, surrounded by storm clouds. Here the greatest
    warriors, who followed Cuiraecen in life, celebrate their success in battle with him now. The hall is home to a continous feast where warriors may enjoy the spoils of the victories in life.

    Eloele: Endless Maze.
    This was originally a copy of Sera's market place, created shortly after the birth of the goddess of thieves. Over time though the goddess' nature has grown more chaotic and it now resembles a vast maze of streets, alleys and squares. Anyone who enters (except the gods) will find themselves soon lost in the twisting passages and will be trapped for eternity. Eloele, who has few true worshippers allow any she thinks worthy (around 10-25% of her worshippers) access to this domain.
    Unlike Sera's realm the Endless maze is a city of taverns, brothels, gambling halls, and other similar establishments. The most powerful of Eloele's dead live in large palaces and the rest seek to steal from them to gain the wealth necessary to become rich and powerful themselves.

    Kriesha: The Steadfast Chill.
    For one of the evil gods this realm is a place of breathtaking beauty. It brings together all the best parts of a snowcovered, icy landscape and combines them into the single realm. Palaces of ice lie scattered across the landscape and are home to the faithful of Kriesha, while outside a cold wind blows, and pack of wolves and other monster roam.
    Those who have been faithful to Kriesha in life are permitted access to the palaces.

    Laerme: Songsheight.
    The realm of Laerme is a large college of knowledge, song, and art. Scholars, painters, sculpters, and other artist roam the ground of the college enjoying the garden of fruits trees and flower beds. Like Eloele's realm there is little order here. The sun shines all the time and the faithful keep whatever hours they choose, free to enjoy what ever pleasure they desire.

    Ruornil: The Silver Lands.
    The name of this realm refers to the lake of mercury that cover much of the domain. Here Ruornil's faithful construct magnificent building of magic and devote their eternity to studing the magical arts. Magic is a chaotic art from, and this place is a land of chaos, ever changing and altering its form. Great wizards of the past each shape their own regions into the forms they desire, and share their art with each other.

    There was some further discussion on the mailing list about this, but I dodn't keep a copy of those messages. You may be able to find them in the mailing list archive (somewhere around or after the 12 of june 1998).
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  8. #8
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    You're of course free to change whatever that is you don't like about the setting, I don't mind that. Personally though, I don't mind that BR is linked to Planescape, I usually don't give much thoughts to the other planes in a game of pure BR, and don't see the point of building a new set of planes when we already have a de-facto one that perfectly makes sense. And when I want the planes to be in, I usually play a game of Planescape, with BR only included if I want my character to come from there. I don't see the point of changing the canon and making it canon however, especially in this case.
    Respectfully submitted,

    Temujin,
    Would-be ruler of you all. =)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Elton Robb's Avatar
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    Hmm.

    Maybe I should tell you that 3E allows for a different planar picture. This time, we can make one that is distinctively Cerilian in nature.
    Regent of Medoere

  10. #10
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    I think BR's planar system should be other than the Great Wheel. Not that I don't like Planescape, but it is entirely un-Birthrightish to have people from Sigil come to BirthRight or the other way around. I like the idea of the great planar ocean. In many ways that links with several real-world mythologies, in which the gods lived in/on the other side of the ocean. Another possibility is to use a cosmology with 1 Hellish lower plane where all the evil gods and demons live and 1 Good Heaven where the good guys live.

    Baragos
    "I am the Servant of the Flame of Arnor"

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