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  1. #1
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I'm working on finishing off the first release of the Atlas of Cerilia at the moment, and as part of that I'm working on the stats for The Spider. Below is what I've come up with so far, and I'm wondering if anyone out there far more experienced at doing 3E conversions of creatures wants to help fill in the blanks (primarily the feats and skills) and check my work to date... ? Any assistance would be most welcome.

    Tal-Qazar (The Spider)

    Level 13 Awnsheghlien Fighter
    Hit Dice: 13d10+26 (91 hp).
    Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative).
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20ft., jump 30ft.
    AC: 22 (-1 Size, +3 Dex, +10 natural).
    Attacks: 2 Claws +17/+10/+5 melee (1d10+4), Bite +17/+10/+5 melee (1d6+4 plus poison).
    Face/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Jump, poisonous bite, web, spittle.
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft., regeneration, tremorsense 60ft.
    Saves: Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +3.
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 7.
    Skills: ??
    Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, ??
    Bloodline: True (Azrai) 95.
    Blood Abilities: Animal Affinity – spiders (Great), Bloodform (Great), Invulnerability (Great), Long Life (Great), Major Regeneration and Regeneration (Great).

    Climate/Terrain: The Spiderfell.
    Organization: Solitary or with goblin bodyguard (12–36).
    Challenge Rating: 14.
    Treasure: See Below.
    Alignment: Chaotic evil.


    If anyone is interested I also have one more character description (The High Mage) that I'd like to run past everyone first.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  2. #2
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:46 AM 3/4/2004 +0100, Raesene Andu wrote:



    >Level 13 Awnsheghlien FighterHit Dice: 13d10+26 (91 hp).



    I`ve always found it strange that the Spider isn`t a higher level character

    after 1,500 years.... Personally, I think he should have those 13 fighter

    levels and another 10-15 levels of an awnshegh class, but c`est la vie.



    >AC: 22 (-1 Size, +3 Dex, +10 natural).



    How`d you came up with +10 for natural armor? Matching it up with the AC

    of the original character description (2e AC: -2 = 3e AC: 22?)



    >Special Attacks: Jump, poisonous bite, web, spittle.



    Does the DC/damage of poison equate to a large spider? Same for

    Web? What`s the range of spittle?



    >Abilities: Str 19, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 7.



    The Spider is described as Intelligence: Very (11) in BE and his

    cardsheet. To keep up the spider motif he should probably have a higher

    dex than strength (at least 3.5 spiders do.) Personally, I don`t think his

    charisma should be below 8 and maybe shouldn`t be low at all. He`s ugly,

    but apparently pretty entertaining (he knows a lot of riddles.) I`d not

    want to have tea with him or anything, but that doesn`t mean he`s

    uncharismatic. I kind of get the feeling he`s got a lot of goblin

    followers which would imply some level of charisma.



    >Skills: ??F



    Climb, hide, jump, listen, move silently and/or spot seem apt. Spiders in

    the MM have racial bonuses to jump, spot, hide and move silently checks,

    which you might want to consider. Just by having a climb movement rate he

    gets the +8 to climb checks (and we might assume the same for jumping.) If

    he`s got a 15 intelligence that makes for 64 skill points and a max rank of

    16. If his intelligence is 11, however, that`s down to 32 skill

    points. For the sake of evenness, however, you might just evenly

    distribute those skill points among those six skills, but if you want to be

    a stickler for fighter`s class skills you might just want to go with climb

    and jump and rely on the character`s dex and (possible) racial bonuses for

    hide and move silently.



    >Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, ??



    He`s got seven bonus feats as a 13th level fighter and one more feat as a

    13th level character. I`d suggest a few that might make sense: Dodge,

    Spring Attack, Improved Grapple, Weapon Focus and Weapons Specialization

    and/or the greater versions of those feats for either his bite or his

    claws. (His bite would probably be more dramatic even if claws probably

    makes a bit more sense game mechanically.)



    For some reason I feel like he should have Track. Just me

    maybe. Toughness or Endurance might make sense (especially Endurance if he

    were to later take Diehard.) To convey his goblin following he might have

    the Leadership feat. But then again I think most BR characters should have

    the Leadership feat....



    You should probably also mention that he`s large in the descriptor of the

    character.



    >If anyone is interested I also have one more character description (The

    >High Mage) that I'd like to run past everyone first.



    I`m interested.



    Gary

  3. #3
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    Nice work,although im not sure if your giving him the advantage of spider move which should probably be faster than 30ft. also the jump which i think should be doubled. other than that he looks great..like tears from my hand.

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    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    No Rogue levels for the Spider? I had always thought he had a few, in part developed as he developed his spiderish abilities. How, after all, has he survived in the heart of Anuire for 2000 years? Invulnerability is #1 reason, of course, but wouldn't he also be a hardcore survivalist, hard to find, lots of burrows, etc.? Ranger would work very well for him too, at least at low levels...something with sneaking just seems too appropriate to ignore.

    Also, shouldn't he, by our newest version of CH 2 of the BRCS, be like a level 2 or 3 Scion of Azrai? Heh, there at least some basic stealth skills could be added in.

  5. #5
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Mar 4 2004, 11:46 AM
    Tal-Qazar (The Spider)

    Level 13 Awnsheghlien Fighter
    Only? I would make him nearly epic level. He isn't as mighty as the Gorgon, but he had about 2000 years too, to get some levels...


    Feat idea: Improved Natural Attack (Bite and/ or claw)
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

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    Birthright Developer
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    I worked out some 3e stats for the Spider long ago, same for a lot of the other awnsheghlien, but I've been waiting for the blood abilities section to be finalized before finishing that up. I'll see if I can dig it up later and update it a bit for 3.5e.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

  7. #7
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    I always thinks of the Spider as a class combination of this...

    Bar 4/Fighter 12/Rogue 2

    Fighter and Rogue show his beginning in that he is rather ruthless and was very skilled at the martial arts, and given that he was a general at Desimarr (and I imagine he was rather cunning to get that position) he required a great number of skills in perhaps some of the more shadier aspects.

    Barbarian represents what he has become now. He has somewhat digressed. His blood makes him more prone to outbursts, and makes more passionate.

    As to special abilities...I would make him huge.

    Str 20-25: Spiders are strong and goblins of Cerilia have a predomination with strength.

    Dex 20-24: His spider form is rather lithe and quick. He is agile (the ability to move quickly and gracefully along webs).

    Con 14-22: I really don't have much justification for this. It just seems as if he was at least a moderate Con and probably more likely is at the fringes of normalacy for humans (18).

    Int 12-18. At one time he was a capable general, and must have some degree of intelligence. I would think that he learns easily and adapts easily to new situations.

    Wis 6-10. Let's face it, he probably had great intution and preception at one time, but now...it is replaced with the beackonings of his deriviation...he is rather unstable.

    Cha 16-20: I realize that this is a change, but Cha represents more than physical appearance, but also force of personality, the ability to lead, and persuade etc. I imagine that the Spider is rather good at this, or at one time was very good at this.


    I think that his movement is rather good, it would be jumped slightly higher with barbarain levels, but I imagine his to be rather quick anyways.

    I also think that his type should be changes to that perhaps of a Monstrous Humanoid.

    Looking at the various subtypes and such, I think that some of the qualities from Vermin are fitting. I might say that he has a Unfamiliar Mind granting him a SR versus Mind-affecting spells and spell-like effects, or perhaps immunity...

    I will think a little more on it.

  8. #8
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    I think that before starting to make stats for vaarious NPCs, some ground rules should be laid down, otherwise things might end up a bit inconsistent.



    For instance, are major anwsheghlien going to be of Epic levels, say CR 30+ for the Gorgon or are they going to be of more moderate power?



    This is also important for other NPC and ultimately PCs as well. If Cerilia is primarily a world for low-level adventurers (as it IS depicted as in 2E), then the NPC need not have such inflated power levels. If the BRCS intends for PC to be more in line with 3E "standard", then change is in order.



    I`d suggest sticking with the low-level image 8perhaps up average levels just a little) and instead make a sidebar or two on scaling up NPCs, perhaps with samles of an "Epic Gorgon" and and "Epic Spider"



    Cheers

    Bjørn



    Cheers

    Bjørn



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    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu
    Level 13 Awnsheghlien Fighter
    Hit Dice: 13d10+26 (91 hp).
    Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative).
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20ft., jump 30ft.
    AC: 22 (-1 Size, +3 Dex, +10 natural).
    Attacks: 2 Claws +17/+10/+5 melee (1d10+4), Bite +17/+10/+5 melee (1d6+4 plus poison).
    Face/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Jump, poisonous bite, web, spittle.
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft., regeneration, tremorsense 60ft.
    Saves: Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +3.
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 7.
    Skills: ??
    Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, ??
    Bloodline: True (Azrai) 95.
    Blood Abilities: Animal Affinity – spiders (Great), Bloodform (Great), Invulnerability (Great), Long Life (Great), Major Regeneration and Regeneration (Great).

    Climate/Terrain: The Spiderfell.
    Organization: Solitary or with goblin bodyguard (12–36).
    Challenge Rating: 14.
    Treasure: See Below.
    Alignment: Chaotic evil.
    Overall a nice description, but I have to comment it a bit more.

    Level: See prior posting… I would tend to some ranger or barbarian levels, but I would definitvly give it at least 5 monster class bloodline levels, if you want to introduce this system somehow in the game.

    Attack : 2 Claw attacks one bite Attack, great; BUT an animal/ magical beast or something with 3 natural attacks NEVER gains an extra attack for a high BAB. It’s attack will improve, but not the numbers of attacks. It will have always 3 attacks, regardless of BAB. IMO it should sound like this:

    Attacks: 2 Claws +17 melee (1d10+4), Bite +15 melee (1d6+4 plus poison) or switched if bite is its primary attack. The sec. Attack does only gains the –2 penalty because of Multiattack, maybe even Improved Multiattack is a choice for the Spider. If you want to use extra attacks because of a high level I would add something like this: "...or by weapon +.../.../... melee (+3 large greatsword of venom [or whatever] 3d6+... krit. 19-20x2) AND bite +15 melee ...."

    What is the poison damage? I would say something like 1d8 temp. Con primary and secondary damage like a phase spider.


    Abilities: Well, for a challenging monster definitivly too low! To be honest, if you don’t use point buy system, any PC with good rolled stats is at least as good as that! Wis 8, OK, the Spider isn’t wise, granted. For the other abilities here is my idea:

    Str 23 Dex 25 Con 20 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 17

    Cha: The Spider might be ugly, but an Awnshegh IS intimidating, so a low Cha does not fit IMO.
    Con: NATURALLY a spider has a good Con, it gains it’s modifier to the poison DC (it is 10+ 1/2 HD + Con. mod. to be exactly). 20 should be the lowest stat for such a monster in Con.

    Dex and Str: Does not need an specific explanation, harvs2 said it...
    For the Str score I would take 19 as base (maybe included the Ability bonusses for increased level) and would add +8 to it as well as +4 or even +6 to Dex for changing race into an awnsheglien...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The Green Knight@Mar 5 2004, 09:10 PM
    I think that before starting to make stats for vaarious NPCs, some ground rules should be laid down, otherwise things might end up a bit inconsistent.
    As some basic ground rules, I would like to keep the bloodline, blood abilities, and general feel of the NPC the same. Levels I'm a little ambivalent about. Personally, I'd keep it the same (and thus I did so on my very rough draft), but if a NPC obviously needs a change, then a change can be made...

    The actual aim of the Atlas of Cerilia books is not to provide current Birthright players with a new version of the material, I imagine that everyone out like (including myself) already has their own preconcieved ideas about all the Awnsheghlien and more human regents. Rather I hope to provide a version of the setting that can be used by newcomers to BR. To that ends, I would prefer that a NPC's description is complient with 3.5E and thus easier for someone familiar with those rules to use the NPC in their new BR campaign...

    All that said, I don't think we need to see an "Epic Spider", the standard one is nasty enough.

    I'll respond to everyone's suggestions shortly, but I'm a little busy setting up my new computer (finally replacing my 3.5 year old system with a much faster new one). I'll also see if I can gather together the rough draft of the High Mage for everyone to pick apart and comment on. The spider and Aelies are the only two major NPCs in the Southern Coast, so the only one's I'll be looking at right now, but I have a few other things I might run past everyone while I'm editing the rest of the document.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

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