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12-17-1997, 01:23 PM #1Kurt WiegelGuest
Here's a question:
In the back of the most recent Dragon annual, it mentioned that
Birhtright will be "relaunched" sometime in 1998. Why? And what
constitutes a relaunch? Inquiring minds wuld really like to know.
Kurt N. Wiegel
01-03-1998, 05:42 PM #2GeniverGuest
I realize that 'me, too' comments are a no-no. He asked for it! And I
have more to add.
Go to any of the gaming stores in my area and they have lots of
Birthright material. They don't have the RuleBook. I guess that means
they are only selling to the choir. No way is anybody new going to buy
BirthRight materials without the Rules.
Seems like the path to bankruptcy. Oops, been there, done that!
I understand the illogic that figures there are x many players per DM
and you can sell x times as much player stuff as DM stuff. Not enough
DMs to make DM stuff profitable? Package it as player stuff! Did
somebody say 'downward spiral'?
I also realize that there are also people that buy every item that comes
out. They are called collectors. TSR needs to decide: 'what business are
we in, games or collectibles?'
I'm biased. I'm a gamer. Five out of the seven people in my gaming group
are also collectors. If that is typical, then TSR *IS* in the
collectibles business. Does that mean they should produce games that
only collectors can enjoy?
James Donald Lail wrote:
> Am I the the only person who would rather have the Rulebook separate
> from the Portion dealing with Anuire ?
> IMHO this is one of the things that has hurt the game somewhat....
> So what ends up happening is that those who decide to try it out have to
> spend inordinate anounts of time because there is only one copy of the
> rule book.And even if they like the game there is something about buying
> a boxed set just for 1 part...
01-03-1998, 09:12 PM #3
- Join Date
- May 2002
- -----Original Message-----
From: James Donald Lail
Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 3:34 AM
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - ReLaunch
>Am I the the only person who would rather have the Rulebook separate
>from the Portion dealing with Anuire ?
You are not alone. I would like to see DM stuff and Player stuff
separated, AND a DM/Player mini-box set that has both. Best of all worlds.
Now, I have fairly honest players also. However, I have one player that
is not honest when it comes to 'not looking at the forbidden texts'. He
also DM's, but not the same gameworld (i.e., Birthright). [NOTE: My
definition of a DM is someone who prefers it to playing and does it at least
75% of his gaming time].. Now, when one of my more honest folk are
looking for a rule or something in the rulebook, they look at the table of
contents...and then maybe the index...and then it is page-flipping time.
Therein lies the problem. They start to flip, and there eye catches the
words "...Belgar is in actuality a doppelganger.". Whammo! He now knows
that Belgar (a prince of the PC's homeland) is an evil doppelganger. Sure,
he can *as a player* ignore what he just read, but the thrill of finding out
the truth through his characters eyes is forever gone. This REALLY sucks
for him and the DM.
Even if the player tries diligently to not look/glimpse into the DM
section, by hook or by crook it will happen at least once. And that is not
a good thing.
Of secondary importance: cost. It is simply cheaper to buy the DM book
for $15 than to buy the DM/Player book for $25.
Thats how I see it. I don't like the idea of my players accidentally seeing
something that they were not meant to know. It annoys them and myself. Its
almost like someone going on and on about this great novel they just read
and then as they are handing it to you, they say something like..."That
butler sure was evil for doing all that! But you'll find out."
Denakhan the Arch-Mage.
a.k.a. Paul L. Ming
01-03-1998, 09:20 PM #4James RuhlandGuest
> I also realize that there are also people that buy every item that comes
> out. They are called collectors. TSR needs to decide: 'what business are
> we in, games or collectibles?'
> I'm biased. I'm a gamer. Five out of the seven people in my gaming group
> are also collectors. If that is typical, then TSR *IS* in the
> collectibles business. Does that mean they should produce games that
> only collectors can enjoy?
A lot of gamers are also collectors of game materiel. I live in the back of
beyond, so I don't often have a chance to pen n paper game anymore. But
even when I did a lot of gaming, I often bought stuff that never saw
(direct) use in any of our campaigns, just for the backround, or to get
some insight or ideas, whatever. A portion of a long response to a simmiar
"There are at least two constituencies. . .which I will call 'players' and
'collectors.' Naturally there is extensive overlap between these two
groups, so the division is perhaps best thought of as two poles of
interest, between which all gamers are streached to varying degrees of
agony. . .thouse who gravitate more toward the collector pole get their
primary enjoyment out of being immersed in the large mass of interesting
pseudo-reality source materiel [backrounds, histories, ideas, stuff that
makes you think. I.E. just like a good novel, but more open-ended, IMO.]
"Neither pole, player or collector, is better or worse than the other.
However, material targeted more toward one pole than the other will not be
wholly satisfactory to the untargeted group*. . ."
I.E. player-types want more adventure materiel, and sourcebooks that are
useful directly in their *own* campaign. Collector-types (or, if you
prefer, reader-types) don't mind; they want stuff packed with information
describing anything (if it's well written).
By the inherent nature of Birthright, though, I think it will always have
a tendancy towards the latter. Why? Because of the very nature of the
campaign; a continent, with gamers scattered (clustered in their own
campaigns, but otherwise scattered) among many cultures, ruling realms of
diverse nature. So, while any kind of adventure can be easily designed to
fit just about any group in the Misbegotten Realms, it is harder in BR
(take King of the Giantdowns; *great* adventure for thouse who want to
forge their own realms. "Worthless" for a group of players ruling Medoere,
Illien, Roesone et al. . .except as a "collectable" and source of ideas.)
*(oh, btw, that quote is from a *long* response to a long letter, published
in Challenge #77 & written by Dave Nilsen. Of course, that company, GDW,
*also* went bankrupt. . .)
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