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Thread: Realm Spells

  1. #1
    Fredrik Lundberg
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    Det hdr dr ett multipart-meddelande i MIME-format.

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    Since there seems to be some kind of collective writers block I thought =
    I'd post some questions for everyone to think about and answer.

    * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the =
    appropriate holding?

    * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she then =
    cast realm spells?

    * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his =
    life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she =
    become a magician?

    * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and now =
    can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from his/her =
    spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full allotment of =
    spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can he/she learn =
    new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm spells? Would =
    he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or would he/she =
    forget them?

    * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she then =
    be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her spells =
    that he/she lost above?

    Here are a few words from Carl von Clausewitz that is very true in =
    Birthright world
    "War is but a continuation of politics with other means."

    Thank you all for your time,
    Fredrik "Fro" Lundberg
    ICQ UIN: 4022817

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    Since there seems to be =
    some kind of=20
    collective writers block I thought I'd post some questions for everyone =
    to think=20
    about and answer.
     
    * Can Rangers, Paladins =
    and Bards=20
    cast realm spells if they have the appropriate holding?
     
    * Can a blooded =
    character be a=20
    magician? If he/she can, can he/she then cast realm spells?
     
    * If a human wizard is =
    subjected to=20
    bloodtheft and there by loses his life (and bloodline) and is later =
    raised or=20
    resurrected would he/she become a magician?
     
    * What would happen =
    with the spells=20
    that he/she knew as a wizard and now can't cast because he/she is a =
    magician?=20
    Would they be lost from his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident =
    had his=20
    full allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how =
    can=20
    he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm =
    spells?=20
    Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or would =
    he/she=20
    forget them?
     
    * If that same =
    character later gained=20
    a new bloodline would he/she then be a magician or a wizard? And what =
    would=20
    happen with the his/her spells that he/she lost above?
     
    Here are a few words from Carl von =
    Clausewitz that=20
    is very true in Birthright world
    "War is but a =
    continuation of=20
    politics with other means."
     
    Thank you all for your=20
    time,
    Fredrik "Fro" =

    Lundberg
    ICQ UIN:=20
    4022817

    - ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BD0050.C477A140--

  2. #2
    Tripp Elliott
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    Fredrik Lundberg wrote:
    >
    > Since there seems to be some kind of collective writers block I
    > thought I'd post some questions for everyone to think about and
    > answer.
    > Â*
    > * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
    > appropriate holding?

    Sure, why not, I'd even let Priests of Ruornil cast Wizard Realm Spells
    if they controlled a source.

    > * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she
    > then cast realm spells?

    Sure, but only first and second level ones, provided the character owns
    sources.

    > * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his
    > life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she
    > become a magician?

    Hmmm, I'm not gonna touch this one.

    > * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and
    > now can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from
    > his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full
    > allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can
    > he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm
    > spells? Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or
    > would he/she forget them?

    Not doing this one either.

    > * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she
    > then be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her
    > spells that he/she lost above?

    Ditto

    These are all great questions though, I just don't fell qualified to
    answer some of them.

    Tripp

  3. #3
    Trizt
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    - ->Fredrik Lundberg wrote:

    - ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
    - ->> appropriate holding?

    I think that it was ment that only wizards and priests could cast realms
    spells. But IMO Bards should have some access to cast realms spells, maybe
    that their source is counted as half their value when casting realms spells
    (eg a bard needs a level 2 source holding for casting a spell which needs a
    level 1 source). Rangers and Paladins should never have access to Realm spells
    as thise always needs to be of "high" level before they can cast spells.


    - ->> * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she
    - ->> then cast realm spells?

    Yes they can and when it comes to Realms Spells they should not be as good as
    true wizards, so prolly the same thing as I suggested for Bards.


    - ->> * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his
    - ->> life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she
    - ->> become a magician?

    I would say that the wizard would still be a wizard, but can only cast spells
    like a magican.


    - ->> * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and
    - ->> now can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from
    - ->> his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full
    - ->> allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can
    - ->> he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm
    - ->> spells? Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or
    - ->> would he/she forget them?

    Nothing would happen to the spells, they just would take up a place in the
    "wizards" mind, so they should be counted when checking how many spells the
    "wizard" knows. The spells will still occupy the pages, spells don't know how
    to disappear, it's just that the "wizard" can't handle the energies which is
    needed to understand this spell.
    How the "wizard" would learn new spells? In the same manner s/he would done
    before s/he died. And the "wizard" would remember those Realm spells, but as
    with true magic spells, thise can't be used.


    - ->> * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she
    - ->> then be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her
    - ->> spells that he/she lost above?

    When gained new blood the "wizard" would again be able to cast the spells
    which s/he couldn't during her/his unblooded period.
    It's just like a priest who falls from his religion and looses all his magical
    powers as his god no longer supports him, he still is a priest, as soon as he
    somhow gains the trust of a new (or the old) god, he will get back his
    abilities to cast spells.



    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    -

  4. #4
    Trizt
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    - ->Fredrik Lundberg wrote:

    - ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
    - ->> appropriate holding?

    I think that it was ment that only wizards and priests could cast realms
    spells. But IMO Bards should have some access to cast realms spells, maybe
    that their source is counted as half their value when casting realms spells
    (eg a bard needs a level 2 source holding for casting a spell which needs a
    level 1 source). Rangers and Paladins should never have access to Realm spells
    as thise always needs to be of "high" level before they can cast spells.


    - ->> * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she
    - ->> then cast realm spells?

    Yes they can and when it comes to Realms Spells they should not be as good as
    true wizards, so prolly the same thing as I suggested for Bards.


    - ->> * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his
    - ->> life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she
    - ->> become a magician?

    I would say that the wizard would still be a wizard, but can only cast spells
    like a magican.


    - ->> * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and
    - ->> now can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from
    - ->> his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full
    - ->> allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can
    - ->> he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm
    - ->> spells? Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or
    - ->> would he/she forget them?

    Nothing would happen to the spells, they just would take up a place in the
    "wizards" mind, so they should be counted when checking how many spells the
    "wizard" knows. The spells will still occupy the pages, spells don't know how
    to disappear, it's just that the "wizard" can't handle the energies which is
    needed to understand this spell.
    How the "wizard" would learn new spells? In the same manner s/he would done
    before s/he died. And the "wizard" would remember those Realm spells, but as
    with true magic spells, thise can't be used.


    - ->> * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she
    - ->> then be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her
    - ->> spells that he/she lost above?

    When gained new blood the "wizard" would again be able to cast the spells
    which s/he couldn't during her/his unblooded period.
    It's just like a priest who falls from his religion and looses all his magical
    powers as his god no longer supports him, he still is a priest, as soon as he
    somhow gains the trust of a new (or the old) god, he will get back his
    abilities to cast spells.



    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    -

  5. #5
    Scotty
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    - ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
    - ->> appropriate holding?

    IMO, I would say yes to both paladins and rangers casting realm spells
    both would have some connection and interest in the realm. Bards are
    typically wanderers, with few to know loyalties.

    Scott Stokes
    "I am the soul of honor, trust me in all things."

  6. #6
    Tripp Elliott
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    Trizt wrote:
    >
    > ->Fredrik Lundberg wrote:
    >
    > ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
    > ->> appropriate holding?
    >
    > I think that it was ment that only wizards and priests could cast realms
    > spells. But IMO Bards should have some access to cast realms spells, maybe
    > that their source is counted as half their value when casting realms spells
    > (eg a bard needs a level 2 source holding for casting a spell which needs a
    > level 1 source). Rangers and Paladins should never have access to Realm spells
    > as thise always needs to be of "high" level before they can cast spells.

    Now, for this, I have to disagree. I would look at a Realm spell, let's
    use a Priest one, say it can only be cast by a third level Priest. Ok,
    I'd look at the spell table, and say, ahh, that's a "2nd" level Realm
    Spell. So, when do Paladin's get 2nd Level spells? 11th Level, Ok, an
    11th Level Paladin can cast this Realm spell. That's how I would rule,
    and similarly for Rangers.

    Tripp

  7. #7
    TSR Carrie
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    In a message dated 97-12-05 23:33:15 EST, you write:

    >

    As the editor and developer of *The Book of Magecraft*, I would have to say
    NO. From a story perspective, it takes someone who has devoted his or her
    entire life to the study of magic or worship of a god to control such powerful
    magic, whereas rangers, paladins, and bards have also developed other talents.
    From a game balance perspective, realm spells are too powerful to allow access
    to classes from all four character groups.

    Carrie Bebris

  8. #8
    Rich Baker
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    At 06:12 PM 12/11/97 EST, Carrie Bebris wrote:
    >
    >appropriate holding? >>
    >
    >As the editor and developer of *The Book of Magecraft*, I would have to say
    >NO. From a story perspective, it takes someone who has devoted his or her
    >entire life to the study of magic or worship of a god to control such
    powerful
    >magic, whereas rangers, paladins, and bards have also developed other
    talents.

    Carrie is, as always, correct. Realm spells are the special prerogative of
    the true wizard and the priest (and specialty priest and druid) -- no other
    classes with spell abilities can make use of these powerful magicks.

    Rich Baker
    Birthright Designer

  9. #9
    hobbychest@pcsia.co
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    Its nice to see Carrie and Rich have joined the discussion. I haven't
    seen either of you post since I've been on.

    Robert Thomson
    rthomson@geocities.com

  10. #10
    prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co
    Guest

    Realm Spells

    Hey everybody- glad we're back! I was worried during the outage that I had been
    somehow banished to the Shadow world.

    Carrie; good to "see" you here.

    I would agree, in general that allowing classes such as Rangers and Bards to
    cast realm spells is unbalancing. The only one I'm waffling on is Paladins.
    Without realm spells, a Paladin couldn't be the leader of a church; at least
    not a very effective one. The crippling factor is that he couldn't invest
    anyone. No published domains that a straight Paladin as their head come to
    mind. (Taliene??) Hmmmm, guess the decision lies in how one envisions paladins.

    Militant defenders of the faith or heads of fighting orders only.
    Warriors who know some dogma, rituals and other priestly stuff, or who have
    experienced some special calling to serve their god.

    Enlightend warriors who see the best way to serve their god is through their
    skill at arms. Priests who are really good fighters.

    Hmmm, looks like I'm answering my own questions once again. I see them, and
    their class is defined as, that of the militant defender. They're warriors
    first and priests second. No realm spells for you buckaroo. (except maybe
    investiture??)

    Bummer for my player who is a paladin- tentatively, I was going to let him get
    away with it.

    Randax

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