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  1. #1
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    From all of the discussion on the revision to Chapt 1 I have noticed very little talk about changing the races as presented. Most of the suggestions have been along the lines of making the races "more powerful" akin to the paragon racial classes of UA. That is making them more powerful than they were in 2nd ed. I haven't really seen anyone say that they thought the revised races section presented the races in an unbalanced method or in a way that didn't capture the 'feel and flavor' of 2nd ed Birthright.

    Am I missing or misunderstanding something here or am I about right on in my assessment of the feedback?
    Duane Eggert

  2. #2
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    I for one have no problem with the races as written.
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  3. #3
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I for one tried to see other people's take on the subject and regretfully saw what you mentioned being part of the truth... And truth be told, I do not have a problem with paragon classes, it's just that I do not like the idea as much as others. In any case, I also realise there is a small part which wants more powerful elves per se; however, they are rather few. I think that people here should try to start and raise their voices a little more: "Shouts of people, wrath of God!" as we say in my country.

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    I thought the races were just fine. No need to load them up on hormones to look like Arnold.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    I for one am a fan of more powerful elves, but I can do that with levels if I want to, though I think it would be cool to have some racial levels for them.

    I think the human races are perhaps the oddest bag, as they're now drastically different from their 2nd ed origins. Without a lot of playtesting, it's hard for me to say if they're good or not.

    I do miss the special little bonuses the humans got in the BRCS: Anuireans with +1 Will and a few +1 skill bonuses...I don't mind trading the skill bonuses for the regional class skills, but I wouldn't mind seeing each race retain that one general tag like +1 to a save...Vos and Rjurik +1 Fortitude, Anuireans and Khinasi +1 Will, and Brecht +1 Reflex. A slight edge with a lot of cultural symbolism that is kinda neat IMO.

    Osprey

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Concerning one thing that people had brought up about the human bonus skills and applying them to the regional skills - this was supposed to be only the 4 bonus skill points humans get at character creation not the extra skill point at subsequent levels, although the skills are always considered class skills.
    Duane Eggert

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    It's hard for me, but I'm going to try and relate my comments only to the material in Chapter 1. (Wish me luck! :P)

    If it is not readily apparent why a race is receiving a racial ability modifier, the modifiers should be removed and/or replaced with a better fit.

    Ex. Dwarves receive +2 Con, -2 Dex. Although Dwarves in the PHB receive a penalty to Cha instead of Dex, the change makes sense since Cerilian dwarves have incredibly dense bodies. If doing a straight conversion, Anuireans should receive +2 Wis, -2 Dex, which doesn't fit with what I know about them. Changing that to +2 Cha would be more fitting (don't ask me to explain the -2 Dex, that just seems wrong on too many levels).

    I agree with Osprey, both about the human racial ability modifiers and their other little bonuses.
    Dwarves should have 90 foot darkvision (because they had 90 foot infravision in 2nd ed.)
    The Infamous Reputation of Elves and Half-Elves isn't necessary. The effect is much easier to do with the "Influencing NPC attitudes" table from the DMG.
    Halflings should receive the Shadow Jump ability (similar to the Shadow Dancer) in addition to their Shadow Sense ability.

    I'll post more if anything comes up.

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    MING I - IMO the reason that Anuireans got a + to wisdom in 2nd ed was to reflect their ability to rule well. Wisdom is most often associated with good rulership (e.g., Soloman the wise) while charisma is just to get people to follow you and do what you want, not really the same as being a wise ruler. That is Anuireans were effective rulers. Why they had a - to Dex, I'm not exactly certain except it was to balance the other modifier and since they were noble, capable warriors, good rulers, and had the most widespread diversity in temples of any of the human races that just about leaves only Dex as the ability that could be penalized. Str and Con being primary attributes for knightly warriors, intelligence and wisdom primary for understanding and focusing faith (e.g., temples) and charisma is good when leading troops in a battle - not necessarily in managing a domain though.

    That is my take on why Anuireans had the modifiers they did.
    Duane Eggert

  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I agree with irdeggman on why the Anuireans got the Wis bonus. I`ll also

    add that Wisdom granted a magical defence bonus at high scores, benefits

    against spells that effect the mind. This is an invaluable bonus for the

    ruler who might otherwise be magically commanded by enemies or unscrupulous

    advisors. Anuirean rulers were not just wise, as irdeggman points out, they

    were also more resistant to being swayed from their duties by magical

    effects.



    Dex and Wis were often regarded as inverse attributes, not unlike Str and

    Int. I think this tended to reflect min-max approaches to character design

    rather than anything more elevated. Its also worth noting, that as the

    nation most heavily armored, they would be least in need of a Dex bonus,

    unlike the lightly armored Brecht.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

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    Firstly I liked Ospreys (I think) comment on retaining a bonus to save, or something similar. When BRCS was first introduced I didnt like the idea of ditching the bonus to ability scores. But the other bonus' kind of grew on me...

    Cerilian Humans

    Shouldn't the line "Humans are the most populace race.." read "Humans are the most populous race..."??

    I also wouldn't bother stating that the bonus feat works differently for non-elite and elite characters... When I design adverseries for the PC's I would create them with the same advantages the PC's have. I'm not too fussed on this point as I would just ignore it, or consider some NPC's elite anyway...

    Why would Anuireans not have the Ride skill but the Khinasi do? Given that there would be a lot of Knights and other forms of Cavalry in Anuire wouldn't it make sense for them to have it as a background skill as well.

    Perhaps the Vos and Rjurik could also have Endurance as a background skill?

    Dwarves

    It sounds as if the Dwarves predominantly live underground? Did they ever live above ground? If not why would there bonus apply to Orogs and Ogres?

    Elves

    The bonus against Disease for elves says that they are immune to non-supernatural disease. The write-up for Half Elves just says they get a +2 bonus against disease and aging attacks. Should Elves not get the same +2 bonus against Su disease attacks? Or should the write-up for Half Elves say that the bonus doesn't work for Su attacks (the same as for a full blooded elf)?




    Otherwise I like the races and congrats on the efforts in putting this out for review. It's not easy writing doco...

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