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Thread: dms on elves

  1. #1
    RTomasz184@aol.co
    Guest

    dms on elves

    how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time just to
    have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    limitations at 15 is not a big limitation) me and a couple of dms i know are
    thinking of running elveless campaigns since were so tired of them you would
    think they breed quicker then kobolds they way they make up the majority of
    most parties
    rob

  2. #2
    Trizt
    Guest

    dms on elves

    On 14-Nov-97, RTomasz184@aol.com (RTomasz184@aol.com) wrote about Re:
    [BIRTHRIGHT] - dms on elves:
    - ->how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time just
    to
    - ->have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    - ->limitations at 15 is not a big limitation) me and a couple of dms i know are
    - ->thinking of running elveless campaigns since were so tired of them you would
    - ->think they breed quicker then kobolds they way they make up the majority of
    - ->most parties

    This isn't the first time this subject appears here, and I haven't still got
    any suggestions how to get my players to play anything else than humans??
    Since I started to DM (6 years ago) my players haven't used more than 9
    demihumans (For FR: 2 Dwarevs, 1 Half-Elf, 2 Elves, 1 Drow; For BR: 1 Dwarf, 1
    Halfling, 1 Elf) and I can't remember how many humans they have had during
    thise years.


    //Trizt of Ward^RITE

    -

  3. #3
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    dms on elves

    >
    > how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time
    just to
    > have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    > limitations at 15 is not a big limitation)...
    >
    yah; this discussion was ongoing when I joined the list a mo. or so ago,
    the general agreement was that players who's sole goal is to play elves
    should have their horizon's broadened. Folks even came up with DM Fiat ways
    of preventing this (I.E. forcing players to roll to see if they could play
    the race of their choice). IMO, best way is to convince 'em of the flaws of
    just playing the same thing over again; especially in Cerilia, make sure
    they are **not welcomed** with open arms in human lands; lots of fist
    fights, brawls (make sure they can't win 'em all), the authorities always
    blame them for instigating it, even if other folks did it; make 'em pay
    more for everything--rooms, weapons, food, etc., I.E. negate their charisma
    negotiating bonuses when dealing with humans (the racisim factor). In
    general, make 'em see that Goblins might be more welcome in human lands
    than Elves are. Also, have some human, or dwarven, or whatever NPCs that
    absolutely rock. Let 'em see that not just elves kick ass. Then, perhaps,
    as their horizons broaden, you can even wean 'em away from powergaming.
    IMO, though, forcing folks to play characters they don't want to will just
    encourage them to find a DM who will.

  4. #4
    Robert Harper
    Guest

    dms on elves

    At 08:01 AM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
    >how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time just to
    >have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    >limitations at 15 is not a big limitation) me and a couple of dms i know are
    >thinking of running elveless campaigns since were so tired of them you would
    >think they breed quicker then kobolds they way they make up the majority of
    >most parties
    >rob

    Whether in Birthright or conventional AD&D the 'elven' factor seems to crop
    up. I think it is dealt with simply by keeping the campaign context in mind.
    Also, remember that it is a game for players to adopt personas they find
    interesting. If they want to play tragic members of a doomed, misunderstood
    and unpopular race they should be able to do so - and the DM should ensure
    they have the 'full experience' (including being hunted to use their blood
    in longevity potions etc.). There is nothing wrong with a party of all
    elves, as long as they are playing elves in the full sense and not just the
    stats. It can be quite fun roleplaying members of a tragic race.

    In Cerillia one of the most serious drawbacks is the added lack of clerical
    magic. And I do not think PC or NPC priests would use miracles,
    particularly potent ones (Restoration, Regeneration etc) on elves. In the
    longer term this would be quite nasty - think of all the monster-caused
    illnesses that only clerical magic cures - the poisons - the curses! The
    simple fact is, PC's without access to clerical magic are not viable in
    anything approaching a standard AD&D campaign - not unless they do alot of
    running away.

    This is one of the prime reasons Cerillia's elves have waned while humans
    waxed and should be reflected in the ongoing campaign.

    One piece of advice, do not allow the use of optional rules (including many
    from TSR sources) that are written by faeriephiles and seem to presume that
    elves come from the planet Krypton. As above, the fact is that in most
    settings it is assumed that elves as a race are weaker than humans as a race
    and declining. Never allow additions to the game that would alter this state.

    __________________________________________________ _________________
    | |
    | We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
    | Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
    | |
    | Lucien LaCroix |
    |_________________________________________________ __________________|

  5. #5
    abeard@zebra.net (Adam B
    Guest

    dms on elves

    RTomasz184@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time just to
    > have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    > limitations at 15 is not a big limitation) me and a couple of dms i know are
    > thinking of running elveless campaigns since were so tired of them you would
    > think they breed quicker then kobolds they way they make up the majority of
    > most parties
    > rob

    In a standard AD&D realm I would agree with you. But I have found that
    my players tend to play mostly human in Birthright. Remember that eleves
    and humans in cerilia don't exactly get along like the best of friends.
    And humans are definately the predominant race on cerilia. I know there
    are some that get along but for the most part they don't like each
    other.

    Adam

  6. #6
    Christopher Kira
    Guest

    dms on elves

    >At 08:01 AM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
    >>how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time just
    to
    >>have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    >>limitations at 15 is not a big limitation) me and a couple of dms i know
    are
    >>thinking of running elveless campaigns since were so tired of them you
    would
    >>think they breed quicker then kobolds they way they make up the majority
    of
    >>most parties
    >>rob


    On a related note: half-elves. The rulebook is a little fuzzy on how much
    they are accepted and such. I have a group of humans and half-elves....
    which helps the half-elves fit in better... but what are some suggestions
    for this in BR. How much would half-elves be accepted?

    CK
    -

  7. #7
    RTomasz184@aol.co
    Guest

    dms on elves

    according to the novels 1/2 elves are accepted by elves but suffer from
    bigotry by the humans
    rob

  8. #8
    Craig Greeson
    Guest

    dms on elves

    Greetings,
    I think Robert Harper has hit the nail on the head here. Several players in
    my campaign and I prefer demi-humans to humans because they are "fantastic". I
    don't mean fantastic in the sense that they are fantastically powerful, I mean
    fantastic as in Fantasy Role Playing. It's fairly easy to relate to how a Vos
    barbarian or an Anuirean cavalier will act. A creature of stone (dwarves), of
    faerie dust (elves), or of a formerly faerie world gone terribly wrong (halflings)
    is more challenging and, IMHO, more fun to role play. If power gaming is a
    problem for the DM, by all means eliminate some or all of the special abilities of
    demi-humans. Or, another alternative is to let your players (if they're scions)
    know you will give human PCs greater bloodlines and more blood powers to offset
    the racial abilities of the other races (this is what I've done). With respect to
    elves, I know the reason I like them is because they are a magical race with lots
    of wizards. To me, magic is what makes fantasy role playing great.
    On the topic of elves in particular, I think BR has watered them down a bit.
    They are immortal and don't require traditional sleep, which is cool to know but
    typically of limited use to a Power Gamer. They are immune to normal disease, but
    how many human PCs ever died from malaria? They see well in starlight and
    moonlight, which is again neat to know but not a game breaker. The Pass Without
    Trace and rapid travel in any terrain powers are of significant use in some
    campaigns, but probably never used in others (not to mention the party must be all
    elves for this to make much difference). Thus, their major Power Gamer advantages
    are Charm/Sleep resistance and surprising opponents. Good abilities, but not
    overpowering.
    IMO, halflings are a just as good or better choice for PowerGamers in a BR
    campaign with modest levels. Try a halfling fighter/thief who has awesome
    thieving skills and a good AC with his +2 dexterity, a bonus to hit with thrown
    weapons, resistance to poison and magic, a bonus to surprising opponents, the
    unlimited ability to detect evil/undead/necromancy, and the ability to Dimension
    Door/Shadow Walk. Have your character become a guilder. Once you have acquired
    more gold than the US used to have in Ft. Knox, branch out into law holdings
    someplace with a weak or poor ruler. You'll be rich and raking in tons of regency
    from your guilds, trade routes, and law holdings.
    One final thought. If a DM has a particular campaign direction in mind, I
    agree with the previous poster who said you should work with your players during
    PC creation to design a character they will enjoy that also fits in well with your
    campaign. Hopefully your players are mature enough to be a bit flexible.

    Thanks for letting me throw in my 2+ GB

    Robert Harper wrote:

    > Whether in Birthright or conventional AD&D the 'elven' factor seems to crop
    > up. I think it is dealt with simply by keeping the campaign context in mind.
    > Also, remember that it is a game for players to adopt personas they find
    > interesting. If they want to play tragic members of a doomed, misunderstood
    > and unpopular race they should be able to do so - and the DM should ensure
    > they have the 'full experience' (including being hunted to use their blood
    > in longevity potions etc.). There is nothing wrong with a party of all
    > elves, as long as they are playing elves in the full sense and not just the
    > stats. It can be quite fun roleplaying members of a tragic race.
    >
    > One piece of advice, do not allow the use of optional rules (including many
    > from TSR sources) that are written by faeriephiles and seem to presume that
    > elves come from the planet Krypton. As above, the fact is that in most
    > settings it is assumed that elves as a race are weaker than humans as a race
    > and declining. Never allow additions to the game that would alter this state.

  9. #9
    hobbychest@pcsia.co
    Guest

    dms on elves

    BI>On a related note: half-elves. The rulebook is a little fuzzy on how much
    BI>they are accepted and such. I have a group of humans and half-elves....
    BI>which helps the half-elves fit in better... but what are some suggestions
    BI>for this in BR. How much would half-elves be accepted?

    I don't remember where I read it, but I believe half-elves are treated
    as elves. Both humans and elves treat them this way.

    Robert Thomson

  10. #10
    FRANKEN*RC
    Guest

    dms on elves

    > how many dms out there are tired of people playing elves all the time just to
    > have power character with lots of benefits and no hinderances (level
    > limitations at 15 is not a big limitation) me and a couple of dms i know are
    > thinking of running elveless campaigns since were so tired of them you would
    > think they breed quicker then kobolds they way they make up the majority of
    > most parties
    > rob

    those players seem to forget that in BR they can't move around
    very freely.
    Most people at least distrust elves, are afraid of them or just
    plainly hate them. Most people know the stories of The Manslayer and
    those stories reflect upon all elves. Outside the eleven nations they
    can't expect much help from anybody. (translate into there is NObody
    (except elves) who wants to train them to gain levels. :) )

    Ronald

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