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Thread: Investiture

  1. #1
    BillSeurer@aol.co
    Guest

    Investiture

    Some questions about investiture came up during our game last night that
    aren't covered in the rules (Hey Ed, add these to the "needs clarification"
    list):

    1) If a regent invests a province that is not currently held by any other
    regent is a roll needed, and, if so, is the target the usual 10?

    2) Does an investiture of an unheld province count as a domain action (i.e.,
    take a month's time)?

    3) What happens if two regents both try to invest a currently unheld province
    at the same time?

    4) If there are currently unheld holdings in the province being invested can
    they be picked up at the same time? In my case it is the law holdings that
    are of interest.

    5) Can you invest just a small part of your bloodline to someone or can you
    only do it all?

    In case anyone is interested, the Hag managed to pull off an intrigue and
    poisoned most of the regents and local nobles in Drachenward in my campaign
    and made it look like the PCs were in on the plot. The Soldat and his heir
    were both slain leaving all the provinces and the law holding unheld (as per
    our earlier discussion here).

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    Investiture

    >
    > Some questions about investiture came up during our game last night that
    > aren't covered in the rules (Hey Ed, add these to the "needs
    clarification"
    > list):
    >
    > 1) If a regent invests a province that is not currently held by any other
    > regent is a roll needed, and, if so, is the target the usual 10?
    >
    I would assume so; note that you'll be able to spend regency, but no one
    will opose you, so it should be fairly easy.

    > 2) Does an investiture of an unheld province count as a domain action
    (i.e.,
    > take a month's time)?
    >
    Yes; but try to get it to take a mo. of the priest's time, not your own
    8-). Of course, it should take as much time as normal 'cause presumably
    you're still doing the same meet n greet familiarization you would with any
    invested holding/province.

    > 3) What happens if two regents both try to invest a currently unheld
    province
    > at the same time?
    >
    initiative determines who gets 1st shot; depending on the situation, other
    regents involved could contest this effort, I suppose.

    > 4) If there are currently unheld holdings in the province being invested
    can
    > they be picked up at the same time? In my case it is the law holdings
    that
    > are of interest.
    >
    "unheld" holdings need to be ruled up from the get go. I.E. if during the
    previous turn you cacked the former ruler, and he didn't have an heir,
    either thouse holdings would become someones (a sodbuster or whoever would
    become regent), or they would become "free" holdings; I.E. you'd have to
    create a law holding and rule it up normally, you couldn't just invest
    yourself with all the available slots immeidiately. I.E. in a Province
    (5/0), say no one controls the P. currently, and no one has any law
    holdings in the P. You could invest the province, but you'd have to create
    holding; law, then rule it up. I.E. you don't get a free law (5).

    > 5) Can you invest just a small part of your bloodline to someone or can
    you
    > only do it all?
    >
    Seems like it is an all or nothing proposition. Nothing specifically
    contridicts this, so whatever works in your campaign should be the rule for
    you (this is, of course, always true). But the rules, accessories, etc.
    strongly imply that bloodline investiture is an all or nothing
    proposition...but since you can lose part of a bloodline via various stuff,
    hmmmnnn, this will require debate, I'm thinking. Right now I'd rule no,
    though; all or nothing.

    > In case anyone is interested, the Hag managed to pull off an intrigue and
    > poisoned most of the regents and local nobles in Drachenward in my
    campaign
    > and made it look like the PCs were in on the plot. The Soldat and his
    heir
    > were both slain leaving all the provinces and the law holding unheld (as
    per
    > our earlier discussion here).
    >
    Remember what Ed said during that discussion, though; *someone* likely
    becomes regent. He feels it in his bones, but perhaps he doesn't want to
    make himself known (if, say, he's just a commoner, and doesn't want to be
    part of the minion hunt I mentioned, the target of assassin's daggers).
    But, if you're ruling that no one inherited, see my comments above.

  3. #3
    Tripp Elliott
    Guest

    Investiture

    BillSeurer@aol.com wrote:

    > 1) If a regent invests a province that is not currently held by any other
    > regent is a roll needed, and, if so, is the target the usual 10?

    Your call on this one.

    > 2) Does an investiture of an unheld province count as a domain action (i.e.,
    > take a month's time)?

    yes

    > 3) What happens if two regents both try to invest a currently unheld province
    > at the same time?

    Can't happen, one of them has a better initiative score right? Whoever
    gets there first wins.

    > 4) If there are currently unheld holdings in the province being invested can
    > they be picked up at the same time? In my case it is the law holdings that
    > are of interest.

    I would say no. I would view these as investing contested holdings
    which can only be done one holding at a time. Note, that is not one
    level at a time. A temple(3) can be invested in one chunk, but a
    temple(2) and a temple(1) will take two separate investitures.

    > 5) Can you invest just a small part of your bloodline to someone or can you
    > only do it all?

    It's all or nothing.


    I hope these answers help.

    Other folks will no doubt give some different answers, which for your
    campaign may be more correct.

    Take care,

    Tripp

  4. #4
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    Investiture

    On Thu, 6 Nov 1997 BillSeurer@aol.com wrote:

    > Some questions about investiture came up during our game last night that
    > aren't covered in the rules (Hey Ed, add these to the "needs clarification"
    > list):
    >
    > 1) If a regent invests a province that is not currently held by any other
    > regent is a roll needed, and, if so, is the target the usual 10?

    Yes, the roll is needed. If it is a "new" province, such that no one else
    holds any holdings there, if you spend 9 RP on the attempt, your chances
    are almost guaranteed. If it is a province that has been "abandoned," as I
    take it your case is, I would say that other holders may spend Regency on
    the attempt: in your favor, or against.

    > 2) Does an investiture of an unheld province count as a domain action (i.e.,
    > take a month's time)?

    Yes, it takes time to familiarize yourself with the province and its
    people. I rule that you have to develop some sense of "simpatico" with the
    land and its inhabitants before you can draw the reigns of Regency to
    yourself in the Ceremony of Investiture. Of course, whether this means
    growing to know and love the place or developing a keen idea of the area's
    strengths and weaknesses will depend fully on the regent. :)

    > 3) What happens if two regents both try to invest a currently unheld province
    > at the same time?

    I would rule that the one with the bigger army in the province drives the
    other one out. You can do some war moves if necessary. It is a process
    that requires a certain amount of time, which can be impossible to
    accomplish when your life is in constant danger from the roving bands of
    enemy troops searching for you.
    An alternative to this is to attempt to roleplay this as an
    adventure. Assume that the "regency" of the land fell to a certain number
    of lesser nobles who rule small domains in the province (but not big
    enough to actually produce regency). The two competing parties have to
    convince these nobles to side with one or the other. Plus they have to
    worry about any of these lesser nobles getting big ideas and wanting to
    take over themselves, especially if they are blooded as well. The idea
    then is that the one who obtains the majority of the loyalty of the
    landrulers in the province wins the province. If the sides are deadlocked
    at the end of the month, the domain turn is lost to the adventure, and the
    ceremony must wait until the next month.

    > 4) If there are currently unheld holdings in the province being invested can
    > they be picked up at the same time? In my case it is the law holdings that
    > are of interest.

    This is a very good question, and one that is unclear in the Rulebook.
    It's never been clear whether you have to have a ceremony done whenever
    you even go up one level in a holding, or whether once you own a holding,
    any increase in it is automatically invested. The former rule would
    probably make temples a little too powerful, so I've been ruling that once
    a new holding is invested, further rule actions automatically increase
    your RP "draw." The question of province and law holdings is related, but
    intriguingly different. My feeling is that if you hold them at the time of
    investiture, and the "people" that those holdings represent (judges,
    nobles, etc.) can physically be present at the ceremony, then they can be
    included in the process. I DON'T think that by investing a province, you
    automatically gain the law holdings. But whether, once you own the
    province, and later decide to acquire law holdings, that requires you to
    do the ceremony over again, is an interesting question. My call is this:
    if you are a figher class character (not a ranger, and not a paladin),
    then you automatically gain the loyalty of your vassals if you
    subsequently gain law holdings. Otherwise you have to have another
    ceremony. Does this at all help?

    > 5) Can you invest just a small part of your bloodline to someone or can you
    > only do it all?

    I would say that it is possible, but it is a new spell/Ceremony, and must
    be researched first.

    > In case anyone is interested, the Hag managed to pull off an intrigue and
    > poisoned most of the regents and local nobles in Drachenward in my campaign
    > and made it look like the PCs were in on the plot. The Soldat and his heir
    > were both slain leaving all the provinces and the law holding unheld (as per
    > our earlier discussion here).
    >
    > Thanks!

    Sounds like an interesting campaign. I hope some of this helps you work it
    out.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  5. #5
    FRANKEN*RC
    Guest

    Investiture

    > Some questions about investiture came up during our game last night that
    > aren't covered in the rules (Hey Ed, add these to the "needs clarification"
    > list):
    >
    > 1) If a regent invests a province that is not currently held by any other
    > regent is a roll needed, and, if so, is the target the usual 10?
    hmm as far as i know the maps of Cerelia ALL provinces are held by a
    regent.
    >
    > 2) Does an investiture of an unheld province count as a domain action (i.e.,
    > take a month's time)?
    >
    > 3) What happens if two regents both try to invest a currently unheld province
    > at the same time?
    Start the bidding. :)))
    >
    > 4) If there are currently unheld holdings in the province being invested can
    > they be picked up at the same time? In my case it is the law holdings that
    > are of interest.
    >
    > 5) Can you invest just a small part of your bloodline to someone or can you
    > only do it all?
    only all of it, at least that's what the rulebook says.
    >
    > In case anyone is interested, the Hag managed to pull off an intrigue and
    > poisoned most of the regents and local nobles in Drachenward in my campaign
    > and made it look like the PCs were in on the plot. The Soldat and his heir
    > were both slain leaving all the provinces and the law holding unheld (as per
    > our earlier discussion here).
    aha, now i get it, maybe i should read the whole post before
    answering. :) well i think even when holdings aren't held by a
    regent, there are always people working them, they can resist against
    a regent trying to take control, and the bigger the holding the more
    those people can resist. So it would seem logical that the regent
    still has to make a roll, there is just nobody who will start bidding
    against him, because only regents can do that. :)

    just my 2 cents. :)

    Ronald

  6. #6
    Neil Barnes
    Guest

    Investiture

    On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, FRANKEN*RC wrote:
    > hmm as far as i know the maps of Cerelia ALL provinces are held by a
    > regent.

    The Tarvan Waste (in Khinasi) is unheld. Neither the Uighers or the
    Stone Axes rule the provinces. I've not read any of the Northern
    supplements - my budget's been too strained.

    neil

  7. #7
    Tripp Elliott
    Guest

    Investiture

    Neil Barnes wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, FRANKEN*RC wrote:
    > > hmm as far as i know the maps of Cerelia ALL provinces are held by a
    > > regent.
    >
    > The Tarvan Waste (in Khinasi) is unheld. Neither the Uighers or the
    > Stone Axes rule the provinces. I've not read any of the Northern
    > supplements - my budget's been too strained.
    >
    > neil

    There is also the unnamed/unheld province in Markazor.

    Tripp

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