[BIRTHRIGHT] -Making Major Demographic changes

[James Ruhland]

> >
> > >
> > > My view on this would be that if the PCs manage to defeat King
Graecher,
> > that
> > > they would either flee into the Five Peaks (more mercenaries for the
bad
> > > guys), or they cause monsters random events through Cariele and
Dhoesone
> > > before entering Markazor (more troops for the Gorgon).
> >
> > How convienient...
>
> Very, I would do much the same. The only way the Elves could totally
> reclaim Thurazor would be to drive out the Goblins all together. This
> would mean all the goblin, even the really little ones. (sniped)

I agree with that; the "how convienient..." comment refered to dude's
previous comments, where the goblins flee. He makes it sound like it is
going to be easy to get 'em to run off; all they have to do is win a couple
of battles and invest the Ps and ::poof:: the goblins are gone, and elves
take their place. To do that I'd make the invaders plunder the provinces
untill they reach level 0 (no one said this would be easy); not all the
goblins were killed, many ran off. Now the place is denuded of people, and
you can start populating it (though, as I said before, I dk where he'll get
all thouse elves...) This method could, and IMO ***SHOULD*** take years
(I.E. numberous game turns in which your armies et al plunder the place
repededly; note that this might not take many *actions,* presuming you have
enough troops to cover all the provinces well--it will take time, though).
After all, you're altering the demographic character of the region, *not*
something that is easily done!

> I've noticed( maybe I'm wrong) that there is a tendency around
> dsitributing Azrai derivation for any evil acts, bloodtheft, and others.
> Just my opinion: A character's bloodline does not dictates
> in anyway the character's behaviour, that is, a person blooded with
> and anduiras bloodline can be twisted beyond imagination, and his
> bloodline does not have anything to do with it.

I agree with that, which is why, IMO, it is ok for the DM to act as a
"voice of Azrai" trying to lead the PC down the path to evil (he gets to
choose if he goes that way or not, though...) but I don't like rules that
force folks into the dark side if the player doesn't want to go their. But
1) Someone mentioned PCs wanting to have an Azrai bloodline, but not have
to deal with stuff like this. IMO, this is probably an example of 'em
wanting to have all the benifits (neeto powers, etc) but pay none of the
price (not have people wonder about their trustworthyness if/when they find
out who's bloodline they carry, not be tempted into the dark, etc.) a DM
should try to curb this, and rules might be the only way to guarentee it
while being "fair". 2) Everyone can run their campaigns any way they want.
If they want Azrai's Bloodline to be a harbringer of evil, it is...

> Second that. "By the Sword" is a bit different from the Arthurian
> legends in more than one crucial part. Even players who know the
> original in and out will be surprised (or even more so).

That's why it's so cool! They'll do the "expected..." and get burned!

Rules stuff: Lots of folks seem to be clamering against the +10 hp rule for
regents. I don't think that it is a bad rule, or an unbalancing one,
overall. But, how about this: max HP for regents at 1st level, then they
get a bonus HP for every level theirafter up to, say, 9th level (for a
total of 8 bonus HP). This would make them a little above average, HP wise,
but not overwhelmingly so.

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, James Ruhland wrote:

> I agree with that; the "how convienient..." comment refered to dude's
> previous comments, where the goblins flee. He makes it sound like it is
> going to be easy to get 'em to run off; all they have to do is win a couple
> of battles and invest the Ps and ::poof:: the goblins are gone, and elves
> take their place. To do that I'd make the invaders plunder the provinces
> untill they reach level 0 (no one said this would be easy); not all the
> goblins were killed, many ran off. Now the place is denuded of people, and
> you can start populating it (though, as I said before, I dk where he'll get
> all thouse elves...) This method could, and IMO ***SHOULD*** take years
> (I.E. numberous game turns in which your armies et al plunder the place
> repededly; note that this might not take many *actions,* presuming you have
> enough troops to cover all the provinces well--it will take time, though).
> After all, you're altering the demographic character of the region, *not*
> something that is easily done!
>

On a related note: I had a character who, as an elf, wanted to start up a
new colony of elves on the island of Caelcorynn (off the coast of
Aerenwe). To do so, I ruled that he had to first raise a unit of "elf
levy" which would depopulate the province from which it was raised (and
had to get permission from the country's ruler) and then move them to the
island. The idea was that in order to get an elven country started they
had to depopulate another ares, since elves have such horribly slow
demographics.

Mark Vandermeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, James Ruhland wrote:

> > I've noticed( maybe I'm wrong) that there is a tendency around
> > dsitributing Azrai derivation for any evil acts, bloodtheft, and others.
> > Just my opinion: A character's bloodline does not dictates
> > in anyway the character's behaviour, that is, a person blooded with
> > and anduiras bloodline can be twisted beyond imagination, and his
> > bloodline does not have anything to do with it.
>
> I agree with that, which is why, IMO, it is ok for the DM to act as a
> "voice of Azrai" trying to lead the PC down the path to evil (he gets to
> choose if he goes that way or not, though...) but I don't like rules that
> force folks into the dark side if the player doesn't want to go their. But
> 1) Someone mentioned PCs wanting to have an Azrai bloodline, but not have
> to deal with stuff like this. IMO, this is probably an example of 'em
> wanting to have all the benifits (neeto powers, etc) but pay none of the
> price (not have people wonder about their trustworthyness if/when they find
> out who's bloodline they carry, not be tempted into the dark, etc.) a DM
> should try to curb this, and rules might be the only way to guarentee it
> while being "fair". 2) Everyone can run their campaigns any way they want.
> If they want Azrai's Bloodline to be a harbringer of evil, it is...
>

I am one of the oppinion that the blood of Azrai should have a property to
that calls one to evil, though I entirely agree that it should be
resistable. I very much like the idea of the DM playing the "voice of
Azzrai." I stated before my belief that the very act of committing
bloodtheft, if not done in a culturally sanctioned form, such as in a War
or a duel to the death agreed upon by both parties, should be enough to
taint the comitter with the bloodline of Azrai. Perhaps this can point to
some sort of middle ground. Perhaps committing blood theft, or assuming
the bloodline of Azrai, not only adds to your current bloodline, but also
(perhaps unknown to players) ALSO creates a sort of "Shadow Bloodline"
which can then grow as well. Any evil acts add points to your shadow
bloodline, and when it equals your own bloodline, then the "Taint of
Azrai" is revealed (your bloodline derivation becomes that of Azrai). As
soon as the Shadow bloodline appears, the DM could begin making comments
to the player: pointing out how much easier it would be to do something
the "evil" way, and adding to the Shadow Bloodline every time it worked.
When the Shadow bloodline reached half of the regular bloodline, the DM
starts directly talking to the character as a disembodied "voice of
Azrai," and the character realizes that there is something funny going on.
Upon gaining a Shadow Bloodline, any further bloodtheft instances adds
both to the true bloodline as well as to the Shadow bloodline. If blood
theft continues after the derivation switches to that of Azrai, then the
blood ability of BloodForm is acquired, and the character must make
actual roles vs. Wisdom to even have the chance to choose to go against
his baser instincts. All of this should, of course, be reversable, perhaps
cheifly via a kind of Geas or Quest spell unique to the churches of
Cerilia, which would serve to purify your bloodline from the taint of
Azrai, but would require more extensive "quests" on the part of the
recipient (as the "material/somatic" components) as the amount of "taint"
to be removed got larger.
Any thoughts? Comments? Attempts to further refine this rather
crude idea into something generally applicable?

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Sepsis]

At 05:44 PM 10/29/97 -0500, Mark A Vandermeulen(vander+@pitt.eduwrote:
>
>I am one of the oppinion that the blood of Azrai should have a property to
>that calls one to evil, though I entirely agree that it should be
>resistable. I very much like the idea of the DM playing the "voice of
>Azzrai." I stated before my belief that the very act of committing
>bloodtheft, if not done in a culturally sanctioned form, such as in a War
>or a duel to the death agreed upon by both parties, should be enough to
>taint the comitter with the bloodline of Azrai.
>

>
>...All of this should, of course, be reversable, perhaps
>cheifly via a kind of Geas or Quest spell unique to the churches of
>Cerilia, which would serve to purify your bloodline from the taint of
>Azrai, but would require more extensive "quests" on the part of the
>recipient (as the "material/somatic" components) as the amount of "taint"
>to be removed got larger.
> Any thoughts? Comments? Attempts to further refine this rather
>crude idea into something generally applicable?
>

While I have no specific input, you might want to glance at the Ravenloft
setting. There are extensive rules for the seduction of PCs by the "Dark
Powers", and on making "Power Checks." As a PC fails Power Checks he/she
progresses along 13 stages of "Corruption" until he/she is transformed into
a "Dark Lord." There are also rules on how a PC can redeem themselves. Now
this is an extreme generalization, you should give the rules a look to get
the whole story.


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html