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  1. #1
    Garamszegi Karoly
    Guest

    trade route - law claims

    Hello,


    during the last game session the following events occured:
    There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
    agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
    trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
    road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
    Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
    turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
    something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
    decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
    the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
    without further efforts?


    Jerry



    *** Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX. ***

  2. #2

    trade route - law claims

    At 10:16 PM 10/20/97 +0200, Garamszegi Karoly(jerry@balu.sch.bme.hu)wrote:
    >
    > during the last game session the following events occured:
    >There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
    >agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
    >trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
    >road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
    >Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
    >turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
    >something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
    >decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
    >the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
    >without further efforts?
    >

    It sure is. But if Ruler 3, or 1, try to skip out on paying the tax, Ruler
    2 will have to use other means to enforce it.


    Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)

    "War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
    the province of life or death;
    the road to survival or ruin.
    It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
    -Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

    BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html

  3. #3
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    trade route - law claims

    >
    > during the last game session the following events occured:
    > There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
    > agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
    > trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
    > road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
    > Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
    > turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
    > something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
    > decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal
    to
    > the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
    > without further efforts?
    >
    Such a decree would be legal, but it would be up to the TRs owner as to
    whether he paid the tax or not. If, on the other hand, the TRs owner didn't
    pay the tax, the Prov 2 ruler could issue another decree, eliminating the
    trade route. So it's in their mutual interest to work out a solution (role
    playing, anyone?...) As DM, adjuticating decrees is probably one of the
    hardest things to interpret; stuff like getting the d6 GB, that's an
    example--it's up to you whether such siezures of goods etc (which is how
    the ruler gets the cash) works, and whether that causes unrest, dificulties
    with neighbors (diplomacy problems), etc. I.E. siezing property of rebels
    and traitors will generate the cash, and *probably* (depending on the
    situation) not cause problems, arbitrarily siezing the goods of honest
    citizens on the other hand, will cause a change in rulership fairly soon...
    >
    > Jerry
    >
    >
    >
    > *** Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX. ***
    >
    >
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  4. #4
    Tripp Elliott
    Guest

    trade route - law claims

    Garamszegi Karoly wrote:
    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > during the last game session the following events occured:
    > There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
    > agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
    > trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
    > road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
    > Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
    > turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
    > something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
    > decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
    > the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
    > without further efforts?
    >
    > Jerry

    I would handle this situation by having Ruler 2 make Law claims against
    the TR based on the GB it collects use the Claims table.

    Tripp

  5. #5
    Ed Stark
    Guest

    trade route - law claims

    At 10:16 PM 10/20/97 +0200, you wrote:
    >
    >Hello,
    >
    >
    > during the last game session the following events occured:
    >There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
    >agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
    >trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
    >road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
    >Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
    >turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
    >something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
    >decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
    >the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
    >without further efforts?
    >
    That's one of the big ways law regents get GB &/or RP. They can "decree"
    anything they want. The DM, of course, should keep a couple of things in mind:
    Decree, as an action, can't replace other actions. In this case, the
    Decree is basically the law regent saying "you have to pay me to use my
    road." There's no mechanic for enforcing this Decree (claims against
    Holdings works separately), but, basically, the regent is saying "pay up or
    you're breaking the law." It's then up to the Guild regent to decide
    whether he can (or wants to) resist the Decree.
    If the Guild regent resists the Decree, he runs the risk of having the
    province ruler occupy the province, shut down his holdings, contest his
    actions, and a host of other things. He also won't be able to count on the
    province ruler's support when defending against other holders or
    aggressors. However, the province ruler can expect Espionage and other
    interference as well.
    The point is, the province ruler can do this (and probably should, more
    often than not), but he has to be circumspect and the holders have to be
    realistic. Governments (province rulers) charge for their services. In most
    of my campaigns, I don't allow extensive use of the Build action without
    the province regent's permission (create a guild house, fine, but you start
    building a road through MY province, and I'm gonna have a say).
    Basically, the province ruler isn't set up to make money hand over fist,
    and warriors don't have the advantages other classes do when it comes to
    special actions. They are set up to be kings (or barons, or whatever) and
    to use their warcraft to defend territory. In return, they should be able
    to expect some financial or moral support.
    It's all negotiation.

    Ed Stark
    Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
    Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
    TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com

  6. #6
    Taragin@sprintmail.co
    Guest

    trade route - law claims

    Garamszegi Karoly wrote:
    > Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
    > turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
    > something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
    > decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
    > the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
    > without further efforts?

    It's perfectly fair for Province 2 to decree a 25% tax. In the rulebook
    under Taxation, Collection, and Trade, on of the 5 ways of making money
    is to demand tribute from other realms, which is exactly what this is.
    - --
    Alexander

    ā€œThere is no dilemma that cannot be solved by a disciplined Cardassian
    mind.ā€ - Gul Dukat

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