About el^D^D Goblin players

[RTomasz184@aol.co]

one thing about goblins is they rule by might makes right and survival of the
strongest and smartest i think some like thurazor are equal to humans and
some like spiderfell are less then vos civilizationwise i think they can get
more out of their resources then the other races since their use to survivng
and scrounging and can make do with less also their more attuned to nature
then humans if you read the spiders test
rob

[Craig Greeson]

>
> >
> Is the "type" of goblin a racial thing (within the species), or more
> something of their own level system. I mean, is one born to be a common,
> elite, or huge goblin, or is that simply a measure of success/luck? The
> average human, for example, has, what 9s and 10s in every stat, right--but
> characters exist with 17s and 18s. Viewed in the same way, wouldn't they be
> "huge" or "elite"?
>
> What I'm getting at here is, shouldn't there be one set of stat modifiers
> for goblin PCs and they end up defining (as well as their dice rolls) what
> sort of goblin they are going to be.
>
> Just a thought.
> -- ->-- ->-- ->--@
> Ed Stark
> Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
> Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
> TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com
> ************************************************** *************************
>

Hmmmm...I was always under the impression that standard, elite, and huge
goblins were 3 different "races" of goblins. As I read Rich Baker's earlier
post on this topic, I still thought my assumption was correct. Ed now has me
wondering if a goblin is a goblin is a goblin. Perhaps Rich could clear this
up.
Regardless of the answer to this question, I agree that goblins on Cerilia
are very interesting. My PCs are planning to launch a campaign to retake
Thurazor for the elves. They're expecting this to be a piece of cake, but I
have a feeling they're going to find Tie'skar Graecher and friends a bit tougher
than the pushover goblins they've known on other campaign worlds.

Regards
Craig

[Neil Barnes]

On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Craig Greeson wrote:
> Regardless of the answer to this question, I agree that goblins on Cerilia
> are very interesting. My PCs are planning to launch a campaign to retake
> Thurazor for the elves. They're expecting this to be a piece of cake, but I
> have a feeling they're going to find Tie'skar Graecher and friends a bit tougher
> than the pushover goblins they've known on other campaign worlds.

What are they planning to do with the goblins? They're either going to
have to kill them all, enslave them or exile them. The surrounding human
realms might ally with the Goblins to avoid this.... (a bunch of goblins
on your border is a lot easier than a bunch of elves :)

I hope you don't let the players get away with anything too nasty to the
goblins.

neil

[Wrb41977@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-10-28 14:56:27 EST, you write:

Regardless of the answer to this question, I agree that goblins on
Cerilia
> are very interesting. My PCs are planning to launch a campaign to retake
> Thurazor for the elves. They're expecting this to be a piece of cake, but
I
> have a feeling they're going to find Tie'skar Graecher and friends a bit
tougher
> than the pushover goblins they've known on other campaign worlds.

What are they planning to do with the goblins? They're either going to
have to kill them all, enslave them or exile them. The surrounding human
realms might ally with the Goblins to avoid this.... (a bunch of goblins
on your border is a lot easier than a bunch of elves :)>>

My view on this would be that if the PCs manage to defeat King Graecher, that
they would either flee into the Five Peaks (more mercenaries for the bad
guys), or they cause monsters random events through Cariele and Dhoesone
before entering Markazor (more troops for the Gorgon).

[Darkstar]

James Ruhland wrote:
>
> >
> > My view on this would be that if the PCs manage to defeat King Graecher,
> that
> > they would either flee into the Five Peaks (more mercenaries for the bad
> > guys), or they cause monsters random events through Cariele and Dhoesone
> > before entering Markazor (more troops for the Gorgon).
>
> How convienient...

Very, I would do much the same. The only way the Elves could totally
reclaim Thurazor would be to drive out the Goblins all together. This
would mean all the goblin, even the really little ones. All of these
goblins would have to go somewhere, the Five Peaks is close and
convenient. Perhaps King Graecher would set himself up as ruler of the
Five Peaks and plot a return to his kingdom at the head of a new army.

I do this all the time with defeat regents in my games. Soemtimes the
players find that regents they thought are dead return and attempt to
retake their lost lands.

Hint: check out Kiergard's info on my pbem pages, see if you notice
anything interesting there.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came,
and to the Darkness we will return.

[Craig Greeson]

> My PCs are planning to launch a campaign to retake
> Thurazor for the elves. They're expecting this to be a piece of cake, but
> I have a feeling they're going to find Tie'skar Graecher and friends a bit
> tougher than the pushover goblins they've known on other campaign worlds.
>
> What are they planning to do with the goblins? They're either going to
> have to kill them all, enslave them or exile them. The surrounding human
> realms might ally with the Goblins to avoid this.... (a bunch of goblins
> on your border is a lot easier than a bunch of elves :)>>
>
> My view on this would be that if the PCs manage to defeat King Graecher, that
> they would either flee into the Five Peaks (more mercenaries for the bad
> guys), or they cause monsters random events through Cariele and Dhoesone
> before entering Markazor (more troops for the Gorgon).

Greetings,
My 2 sentence campaign idea has been jabbed 3 times today. :-) It must be
time to give some details so it can be fully roasted. The campaign focuses on
forging a new elven realm because my players want to be elven regents in Anuire,
and I've always been a bit disappointed with the placement of Tuarhievel and the
Sielwode. Cerilia is a land where humans (and Awnsheghlien) rule, but these 2
realms definitely have it rough. Tuarhievel is the only free land in Anuire with
a direct border on the Gorgon's Crown, and the Sielwode has 5 provinces that
border the Gorgon's vassals. PC regents of these realms would always know that
only by the DMs mercy were they not involved in a war with a neighbor they could
never defeat.
The PCs are trying to retake Thurazor by enlisting the help of the Eyeless
One (Hmmm, I wonder if he can be trusted?). Their current plan is for the
Eyeless One to cast Death Plague to begin eliminating some of the goblins. They
will then infiltrate the realm and create havoc by aiding one of Tie'skar's
rivals to begin a civil war. Forces then move in from Dhoesone and try to take
the eastern provinces of Thurazor. They'll pillage the provinces until they're
driven down to level 0, then start ruling them up as elves move in (most of these
elves will be from an island to the west that's in trouble, but that's another
topic). Later, they'll try to take western Thurazor. My plan is to have goblin
refugees swell the population of Five Peaks.
The Five Peaks, after initial turmoil, will become a powerful realm of
goblins and outlaw humans. This will be a permanent antagonist for the new PC
realm. Talinie and Cariele will not be pleased with the new elven neighbors, and
Boeruine, Tuornen, Alamie, and Mhoried will not like the new strength of the Five
Peaks.
All right, elf-haters, let those fireballs fly. Oh wait, you don't have the
blood needed to cast true magic? Too bad. Seriously, any suggestions on how to
make this campaign fly would be welcomed.
BTW, I started this thread as a little question about whether there were 3
separate races of goblins or just sm, med, and lg versions of the same race. If
Rich Baker reads this, could you please answer that question?

Regards
Craig

[James Ruhland]

> Greetings,
> My 2 sentence campaign idea has been jabbed 3 times today. :-) It
must be
> time to give some details so it can be fully roasted. The campaign
focuses on
> forging a new elven realm because my players want to be elven regents in
Anuire,
> and I've always been a bit disappointed with the placement of Tuarhievel
and the
> Sielwode. Cerilia is a land where humans (and Awnsheghlien) rule, but
these 2
> realms definitely have it rough. Tuarhievel is the only free land in
Anuire with
> a direct border on the Gorgon's Crown, and the Sielwode has 5 provinces
that
> border the Gorgon's vassals. PC regents of these realms would always
know that
> only by the DMs mercy were they not involved in a war with a neighbor
they could
> never defeat.
>
they have it rough on the one hand, being so close to the big bad guy, but
on the other hand both realms posess powerful artifacts and magic that the
human realms do not have--thus they survive, while The Big 'G' periodically
reaves the human realms of Anuire.

> The PCs are trying to retake Thurazor by enlisting the help of the
Eyeless
> One (Hmmm, I wonder if he can be trusted?).

Yah, Shuuuurrreee he can ::wink::

Their current plan is for the
> Eyeless One to cast Death Plague to begin eliminating some of the
goblins.

He's doing this for them because?
They
> will then infiltrate the realm and create havoc by aiding one of
Tie'skar's
> rivals to begin a civil war. Forces then move in from Dhoesone and try
to take
> the eastern provinces of Thurazor.

They have D.s permission, I assume...Always some goblinoid who thinks he'd
make a good king, so that's a good plan. If I were advising the players,
though, I'd point out that ol' Tie'skar may seem weak, but he, and his
realm, has survived a long time surrounded by enemies...

They'll pillage the provinces until they're
> driven down to level 0, then start ruling them up as elves move in (most
of these
> elves will be from an island to the west that's in trouble, but that's
another
> topic). Later, they'll try to take western Thurazor. My plan is to have
goblin
> refugees swell the population of Five Peaks.
>
Dat explains dat. (your plan? you wouldn't be saying that as DM you're
assuring the player's victory, are you? tich tich...)

> All right, elf-haters, let those fireballs fly. Oh wait, you don't
have the
> blood needed to cast true magic? Too bad. Seriously, any suggestions on
how to
> make this campaign fly would be welcomed.
>
Actually, for all I've seemed to rip on it, not a bad plan. resembles a
idea I had for the future (giving T. to the Elves, once I've pieced most of
Anuire back together under my control). Never got that far in my campaigns,
though...

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

The Goblin cardsheet specifically states that BR goblins are all members of the
same species. I've always treated 'em that way. I think it makes them unique
as opposed to the "standard" AD&D goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears.

Randax

[Bryan Ruther]

Ed Stark wrote:

> Is the "type" of goblin a racial thing (within the species), or more
> something of their own level system. I mean, is one born to be a common,
> elite, or huge goblin, or is that simply a measure of success/luck? The
> average human, for example, has, what 9s and 10s in every stat, right--but
> characters exist with 17s and 18s. Viewed in the same way, wouldn't they be
> "huge" or "elite"?
>
> What I'm getting at here is, shouldn't there be one set of stat modifiers
> for goblin PCs and they end up defining (as well as their dice rolls) what
> sort of goblin they are going to be.
>
> Just a thought.
> -- ->-- ->-- ->--@
> Ed Stark

I wrote the information in the netbook about goblin PCs, but I was also
discussingoff the list with Jeremy Reaban (who also posted some information
about Goblin PCs)
about rules for races not covered in the Birthright Rule Book. As a random
thought
in our discussion I came up with the following which does go along with Ed's
above written thought.

Bryan

"I have recently had
an idea that perhaps classification of goblins as described in the BR material
is only
what humans call the different sizes of goblins, yet all different groups and
sizes
live in the same tribe, maybe their level limits could be much more closely
tied to
their stats, something like this:
Class
Attribute Fighter Priest Mage Thief
9 5 4 - 4
10 6 5 - 5
11 6 5 3 6
12 7 6 3 7
13 7 6 4 8
14 8 7 4 9
15 8 7 5 10
16 9 7 5 10
17 9 8 6 11
18 10 8 6 11
19 11 9 7 12
20 12 9 7 13

I know that probably looks skrewy thru email, but you get the idea,
what do you think?"

You could allow Goblin PCs to take up to 3 points in Bonuses to any phyiscal
stat (no stat. better than +2) with a coreesponding penality to a mental stat.
or vice versa


- --
Mankind being originally equals in the order of creation,
the equality could only be destroyed by some subsequent
circumstance...
Thomas Paine, Common Sense

[FRANKEN*RC]

i thought the cerelian goblin was still basicly the standard goblin,
hobgoblin and bugbear. So i guess they were born that way. :)
Goblins are the brains and Bugbears the muscle. :)