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Thread: Chap 1 Rev

  1. #11
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    Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Mar 4 2004, 02:55 AM

    My own concern goes to the Black Strike Style (if my memory plays me no tricks, that's the name), now that Two-Weapon Defence, Improved Two-Weapon Defence, and Greater Two-Weapon Defence are out: why care for a +2 dodge bonus when you can get a +2 shield bonus? In any case, A little care on that matter is my suggestion, as well as a little change when it comes to the main-gauche: as a full-basket hilted dagger, would it not be better to say it grants a +2 bonus on attack rolls to avoid being disarmed?
    Hmmm... I just noticed that Black Strike is no longer listed as a feat in the recently posted version of the chapter.

    Given that I was going to pick one of the various duelist or swachbuckler style prestige classes (or possibly even base classes for Brechts) and use it for practitioners of that fighting style, I heartily approve of this change.

    -- Blair Monroe

  2. #12
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    Just noticed a possible awkward wording in the chapter 1 revision file. It might just be me, but I thought I'd bring it up incase it isn't.

    On page 15 of the PDF version, in the first paragraph under the FEATS header, you have this line: "These regional notations are not regional background feats; regional background feats are listed in the section on Races."

    When I investigate the section on Races, I cannot find anything refered to as 'regional background feats'. The closest I seem to be able to find is the paragraph in the generic description of humans (pg. 1, left hand column) which reads: "Bonus feat. At first level, human characters receive an extra feat. Non-elite characters may only take a feat common in their region (as listed in Table 1-6: Common feats by region). Elite characters (such as player characters) may take any feat for which they are eligible."

    This seems like it is either contradicting the first statement or is a circular reference or an awkward wording of what was intended here.

    -- Blair Monroe

  3. #13
    Junior Member JanGunterssen's Avatar
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    Thnaks for your gently answers to my doubt.
    Then if a dwarf falls 30' his DR also applies? I asume it is.
    Dark is the night, for all...

  4. #14
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JanGunterssen@Mar 4 2004, 10:13 AM
    Thnaks for your gently answers to my doubt.
    Then if a dwarf falls 30' his DR also applies? I asume it is.
    No it does not.

    The 3.5 rules on damage reduction are pretty much as follows ". . .ignore damage from most weapons, unarmed attacks, or natural weapons, but not from energy attacks, spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural attacks." See PHB pg 307, DMG pgs 291-292 (most detail), and MM pg 307 for specifics.

    This was an issue that caused a lot of confusion and conflicting opinions in 2nd ed, but the 3.5 rules are pretty clear and removes this confusion, IMO.
    Duane Eggert

  5. #15
    Junior Member JanGunterssen's Avatar
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    Thanks again
    Dark is the night, for all...

  6. #16
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    Random thoughts I'm afraid:

    Skills:
    I agree with the previous poster that it would make more sense for only the first four bonus human skill points to be limited to the regional ones.

    Druid:
    Given that in birthright, druids are clerics of eric, shouldn't they get knowledge religion as a class skill?

    Magician:
    The special abilities "Additional class skill" and "Bonus Cantrips" are weak compared to the other two options. Making the class skill one equivalent to "Cosmopolitan" from the BRCS and replacing Bonus Cantrips with an "Extra Slot" from Tome and Blood equivalent could help? Other than that, I really like it. Is the spell list the same?

    Noble:
    I liked the old one more than this one. First of all though, the stuff I like is:
    • Favoured Region - though a +1 bonus would seem more balanced (see below)
    • Wealth
    • Adding Warcraft to their class skills (indeed, their skills are spot on)
    • Presense
    A warning though: a 10th level noble with a bloodline of 32, Divine Aura and a bloodmark will have skills like Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive of +27+Cha and a Diplomacy of +29+Cha bonus before they choose feats. Now, according to the Epic book, a roll of 35 on a diplomacy check will turn someone from hostile to friendly and a roll of 50 will turn someone from hostile to helpful or from helpful to fanatically loyal. Further, a bluff check of 50+ acts as a non-magic Suggestion spell.

    On the other hand:
    • BAB: I don't think this should be the same as that of a fighter - they may train well, but they don't fight for their lives on a daily basis. Plus it makes the class too good for a one level dip for a melee character - the wealth, favoured region, bonus skill points are only balanced against a 2 point loss in potential HP.
    • Resources: This is what roleplaying is for. Your favoured region, contributes to your diplomacy allowing you to barter favours and influence others. This bland mechanism is inappropriate for BR.
    • Co-ordinate: The text of this: "Coordinate (Ex): At 3rd level, the noble gains the ability to guide the cooperation of other characters by making a Charisma check (DC 10 + the number of characters commanded). If successful, this increase the bonus granted by cooperation by +2." doesn't seem to make any sense to me and what I think it means ("That's it lads, lift with your knees!") seems a bit too much like the bard again.
    • Battle Cry and Inspire Loyalty are out of place here - they really are the domain of the bard and don't necessarily reflect what a generic noble should be able to do.

    Feats
    • Regional Arms Focus & Regional Elite Arms Focus: Thought they were fine the way they were and the new ability to change the weapon you favour doesn't make sense.

    CM.

  7. #17
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    CMonkey schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=2317

    >

    > CMonkey wrote:

    >...

    > Magician:

    > The special abilities "Additional class skill" and "Bonus Cantrips" are weak compared to the other two options. Making the class skill one equivalent to "Cosmopolitan" from the BRCS and replacing Bonus Cantrips with an "Extra Slot" from Tome and Blood equivalent could help? Other than that, I really like it. Is the spell list the same?

    >

    >

    Something else about the Magician: The 2E Magician had access to the

    Rogue and Wizard nonweapon proficienys. Shouldn´t he have "all Wizard

    and Rogue skills as class skills" instead of listing only a selection of

    them which also would be much shorter than the list?



    If the Magician has a different spellselection with healing and

    conjuration (what I still don´t like) than the 2E Magician who was

    limited to all 1st and 2nd level spells and only illusion and divination

    for level 3+, and as the 3E Sorceror just as the wizard has a d4, then I

    see no reason to give the Magician a d6. He should rather have the same

    as the wizard - or if he gets d6, Simple Weapon Proficiency and Light

    Armour proficiency (which I also don´t like - is the Magician a Bard?)

    and goes more into the direction of rogue with special abilitys for

    spellcasting then he should not have any spells of level 3+ except

    illusions and divinations.



    If we look only at the adventure level, as a Magician as unblooded

    character is generally not meant to rule, then with all the stuff about

    the new Magician it should be carefully avoided to make him better than

    a Wizard who specializes in Illusion and Divination and in 3.5 has to

    forfeit 4 schools, with the same spellcasting benefits as the Magician

    for being a specialist, but without receiving more weapons, light

    armour, healing, more skill points and a wider skill selection.

    bye

    Michael



    > Noble:

    > I liked the old one more than this one. First of all though, the stuff I like is:
    • Favoured Region - though a +1 bonus would seem more balanced (see below)
    • Wealth
    • Adding Warcraft to their class skills (indeed, their skills are spot on)
    • Presense
    A warning though: a 10th level noble with a bloodline of 32, Divine Aura and a bloodmark will have skills like Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive of +27+Cha and a Diplomacy of +29+Cha bonus before they choose feats. Now, according to the Epic book, a roll of 35 on a diplomacy check will turn someone from hostile to friendly and a roll of 50 will turn someone from hostile to helpful or from helpful to fanatically loyal. Further, a bluff check of 50+ acts as a non-magic Suggestion spell.

    >

    > On the other hand:
    • BAB: I don`t think this should be the same as that of a fighter - they may train well, but they don`t fight for their lives on a daily basis. Plus it makes the class too good for a one level dip for a melee character - the wealth, favoured region, bonus skill points are only balanced against a 2 point loss in potential HP.
    • Resources: This is what roleplaying is for. Your favoured region, contributes to your diplomacy allowing you to barter favours and influence others. This bland mechanism is inappropriate for BR.
    • Co-ordinate: The text of this: "Coordinate (Ex): At 3rd level, the noble gains the ability to guide the cooperation of other characters by making a Charisma check (DC 10 + the number of characters commanded). If successful, this increase the bonus granted by cooperation by +2." doesn`t seem to make any sense to me and what I think it means ("That`s it lads, lift with your knees!") seems

      > a bit too much like the bard again.
    • Battle Cry and Inspire Loyalty are out of place here - they really are the domain of the bard and don`t necessarily reflect what a generic noble should be able to do.


    > Feats
    • Regional Arms Focus & Regional Elite Arms Focus: Thought they were fine the way they were and the new ability to change the weapon you favour doesn`t make sense.


    > CM.

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

  8. #18
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Allow me to mention here that flavour and feeling of character classes is more important than stereotypes; for example, why insist on this whole "this is too much bard-like, get it off"? I love bards, but that does not mean others should not grant a bonus to their allies! And believe me, you would feel a lot different if you fought alongside your Count: "Good lads, the Count is coming; let us go to battle under his proud banner!" and such stuff; morale is always improved when your leader is there with you, into the fray.

    In any case, Coordinate is an intelligent mechanic, as are the various inspirational class features - notice how the Coordinate bonus applies only on bonuses for cooperation, not any case like the bard. Furthermore, a noble's not just trained to defend himself fairly and simply land a blow or two on the open field (bard, cleric, druid, rogue), he is more like the militaristic figure who is able to wade through the battle and - just maybe - make it out unscathed, or at least alive.


    As for the magician, I think Extra Slot is not only broken as a feat (since everyone will choose the highest spell level allowed to them by the feat so as to be able to cast any one spell of up to that level&#33, it also does not fit the "lesser path" motif introduced in Birthright. As for armour, hit die, and skills, no, I think allowing a magician free access to rogue skills such as Disable Device, Forgery, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, yet give him only a d4 and no armour... well, that is broken! Only bards get no arcane spell failure chance for wearing armour, and light armour is not that mighty, not to mention the fact that a magician goes around more than the wizard and sorcerer.

  9. #19
    Member Michael Romes's Avatar
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    Errors?

    - Under Lead the same text about "Matters of Justice" that have a DC of at least.... just as under Administration?

    Equipment:
    - The special Improved Mail is still listed under Scale Mail (+4)what is wrong, as it is not worse, but has to be better than CHAIN MAIL (+5) as it is the improved chain mail worn by Khinasi and Rjurik to match the heavy Plate of the Anuireans.
    - Naturally as the Anuireans actually use Plate Mail for which to match the others use Improved Mail, having Improved Mail available to Anuireans is nonsense.

    Mounts:
    - The 2E version had the Vos ONLY with the Varsk, all horses were restricted to Anuireans (heavy Warhorse), An+Khinasi (medium Warhorse) and An+Kh+Elves (light Warhorse). considering that horses don´t get along with Varsks and "the weather and poor forage of lands make it difficult for the Vos to keep horses" (2E rulebook).
    That would mean that the "All" for horses should be replaced by a more restrictive list as in 2E.

    - Saber and Warspear:
    You give the Warspear a X4 critical, which neither Lance nor spear have in the PHB and the versatility to use it as both, but reduce the critical of the Saber (19-20/X2) as compared to the PHB Scimitar (18-20/X2)? If the longsword can have 1D8 and the same critical range as the 1D6 shortsword, then what is the reason that the 1D8 saber can´t have the same critical range as the Scimitar?
    bye
    Michael
    Michael Romes

  10. #20
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Mar 5 2004, 07:28 PM
    Only bards get no arcane spell failure chance for wearing armour, and light armour is not that mighty, not to mention the fact that a magician goes around more than the wizard and sorcerer.
    Actually all arcane casters suffer the same spell failure chance now, there is no exception for bards. It is just part of the 3/3.5 rules.

    Just becasue a class has an armor proficiency doesn't eliminate the arcane spell failure chance for that armor, it only eliminates the not proficient in armor ones.
    Duane Eggert

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