Animals with bloodlines

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by kgauck@Mar 1 2004, 07:30 PM
A while back I posted on horses with feats, and an elven mount with Woodland

Stride would be a natural.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

This is similar to what is portrayed in Noble Steeds, a book from Avalanche Press. In that book a character can send exp back to his mount and level it up. When it levels up it gains certain things, hit points, ability increases, feats. I really reccomend that book for those who want to develop a real detailed process for how to handle mounts and give them differences instead of having the vanilla brand presented in the PHB, etc.

[geeman]

At 12:55 PM 3/2/2004 +0100, irdeggman wrote:



>This is similar to what is portrayed in Noble Steeds, a book from

>Avalanche Press. In that book a character can send exp back to his mount

>and level it up. When it levels up it gains certain things, hit points,

>ability increases, feats.



Interesting. Is the XP "spent" on a mount just like XP earned for a

character? That is, does someone have to spend XP to level up a mount

equal to the XP that mount would need to gain a character level per Table

3-2 of the PHB?



Gary

[Osprey]

You could also treat a steed just like a snetient creature of any sort (i.e., it gains xp on its own seperate from its rider) or like a cohort (1/2 normal xp awards).

Though in all honesty, the 1/2 xp for cohort thing is really irrational...["Hey, you're not a hero! Stop being as good as your master, you're making him look bad!"] Come on, 1/2 xp because the cohort isn't quite as autonomous as the PC? Please!

Anyways, I think it might depend very much on the intelligence/sentience of the steed as to how it would gain xp and what options it wold have for using it.

Ideggman, you wouldn't be willing to post a sample from this book, would you? [heh, I figured it can't hurt to ask. B) ]

Osprey

[irdeggman]

Osprey, I'll see what I can do when I look at my hard copy again.

A character gives some of his exp to his mount. The mount eventually levels up but uses a different exp table than do characters. There is a limit as to how much exp a character can donate at a time, I think it is 10% of what he earns or something along those lines and it must be donated when the character earns his, so a character can't 'save exp' for a one time donation to his mount. It reflects the mount 'growing' with the character. Unfortunealty the book was 3.0 and hasn't been erratas to 3.5, although it pretty much works with 3.5 too.

The book also give a pretty good side bar on how it is impossible for a dog to have a rider.

[ConjurerDragon]

Mark_Aurel schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...=ST&f=2&t=2312

>

> Mark_Aurel wrote:

> This might be a good time to mention that there is an Elven Horse entry in the BRCS playtest - p. 164.

>

> Anyway, I`d also like to back up Osprey here - he definitely paints a correct picture of ancient forests as compared to younger ones. I think Elven forests for the most part would fall in that category - not having much in the way of undergrowth, but rather tall, ancient trees.

>



Could we just say that ancient elven forest may be any kind of forest?

There is no need that an old forest must look like Canadas Mammoth-tree

dream come true with giant old trees and lots of space between. Maybe

Tuarhievel looks like that but they have a road and a human queen ;-)



Especially the description of the Sielwode contradicts that picture to

the extreme with lots of undergrowth, thorns and whatever that will make

it nearly impenetrable to any non-sidhelien passage. Sounds a lot like

the old Blackwood Forest of Germany to me where you can´t see more than

a few meters if you walk away from the major roads and even the minor

footpathes.

bye

Michael

[geeman]

I just wanted to note that the idea of Cerilian elves riding some of the

larger deer species (elk or moose) raises the possibility of their cavalry

rivaling Anuirean knights (heavy cavalry.) Some deer species comparable to

war horses. Moose can be over 22 hands, compared to Shire breed of heavy

horse which is generally 17-18 hands. Plus the fact that they have antlers

and are designed for a charge attack makes for a pretty impressive

mount. That`s without considering some of the fantasy or extinct species

that could still exist in a D&D setting. Since there are Cerilian mammoth,

for instance, it`s likely that there are still earlier (and larger) species

of deer extant on the continent.



It might seem ridiculous that someone ride a moose--but apparently they

actually have been domesticated moose ridden by various peoples in history

and used for military purposes. Moose have better terrain traversing

ability and more stamina than horse. Plus, horses are spooked by

moose. They bolt when confronted by them. Apparently, the big problem

with domesticating moose is that they are susceptible to both deer and

equine diseases and parasites, and have some dietary issues that make them

difficult to keep healthy in captivity, but the nature oriented, magical

elves could easily deal with that.



Wielding a spear or lance to the side of a creature with a big rack,

however, would be pretty difficult....



Gary

[Birthright-L]

> Wielding a spear or lance to the side of a creature with a big rack,

> however, would be pretty difficult....

>





So don`t? Train them to use the Rack as a weapon (covered with iron

"barding" like to protect them) and use a short bow for the rider.

[graham anderson]

Some of the tribal groups in russia actualy use dear as steeds in there semi nomadic travels. They wouldn't be very practical except for travel though.

A forest tends to be thicker and more overgrown at the bounderys as more sun can reach the plants, one of the main reasons for the lack of growth in old forests is that the sun is unable to reach the ground at the same intensity.

I think that a small horse could fit in quite well in more ways than one especially as meny elves are semi nomadic giving the horses more use than just as mounts in battle.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Osprey" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:45 AM





> Though in all honesty, the 1/2 xp for cohort thing is really irrational...

> ["Hey, you`re not a hero&#33; Stop being as good as your

> master, you`re making him look bad&#33;"] Come on, 1/2 xp

> because the cohort isn`t quite as autonomous as the PC? Please&#33;



You have articulated the argument for 1/2 xp well, though from an opposing

POV. I, however, find it persuasive. Ultimatly, its an issue of genre.

Because I see BR as a game utilizing an aristocratic worldview, I am content

with the notion that most NPC`s are nothing more than spear carriers.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/18/S0611800.html



This nicely conveys the notion of the noble as principle actor, as

decision-maker, as the responsible agent, as opposed to his cohorts who

simply do as they are told. This literary convention supports the

imperative of leadership which I expect noble PC`s to embody. It helps

create a sense that they, and only they, lead others to achieve the destiny

that has been set out for them.



It would be nice if they made some reference that they had made this choice

to represent cohorts as spear carriers (see also the treatment of un-named

NPC`s in Robin Laws` Feng Shui RPG) rather than as fully autonomous people.

That way DM`s might chose to include or reject this approach to NPC

experience, but they might have felt that balance issues were at issue.

After all, a cohort, including a mighty beast, is a power deployable by

characters of a certain level, and so starting them at lower power and

limiting their power growth could become a balance issue. I`m guessing at a

possible motive.



I am a bit troubled by the use of standard classes for animals, and don`t

want to see a horse 4/rogue 2/fighter 4 in a campaign. the book irdeggman

mentioned, Noble Steeds, in which the PC spends xp to get powers for their

animal seems to me a better solutuion. I would have to look at the

opportunity costs involved in taking up valuable cohort slots with an animal

vs an NPC cohort, because I don`t want one expenditure to be totally out of

line with the other. I could forsee keeping track of animal xp and spending

to buy abilitys. If the Noble Steeds presumes the animal is not a cohort,

than the player`s expenditure is spot on.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[geeman]

At 01:22 PM 3/2/2004 -0600, Sidhain wrote:



> > Wielding a spear or lance to the side of a creature with a big rack,

> > however, would be pretty difficult....

>

>So don`t? Train them to use the Rack as a weapon (covered with iron

>"barding" like to protect them) and use a short bow for the rider.



Well, one of the important things about using a spear is to have reach,

especially if charging in formation like cavalry does. Plus, it allows one

to focus all that energy into a point, which is better than a blunt

attack. That`s not to say an animal weighing around ton couldn`t do lots

of damage just charging into something, but in general the use of a spear

or lance makes a lot of sense for mounted units that are charging into the

fray. For mounted archers you`d want to go with smaller, lighter mounts

that have more speed, allowing them to "stand off" and fire their weapons

or "hit and run" so as to avoid exposure to enemy attacks.



Gary