Animals with bloodlines

[ConjurerDragon]

Sidhain schrieb:



>----- Original Message -----

>From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

>To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>

>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:16 AM

>Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Animals with bloodlines [2#2312]

>

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>Well Elves are not /only/ Forests creatures in Cerilia--they just live there

>now right? They once rules the entire continent--including deserts,

>mountains etc.

>

They do not only live in dense forests and once rule most of the

continent, but most of the continent was in former times covered by

dense forests.



There are several passages that indicate that all the still existing

sidhelien forests were once one, which means there were pretty few

plains and the idea of the Tribes bringing horses with them from Aduria

(from where the gnolls once came, too) would make another parrallel

between the american indians and the sidhelien.

bye

Michael



>(I for one have a Fantasy setting where they use Deer--big deer but still..)

>

[irdeggman]

Yup, the elves lived in the forest which extended to cover almost all of Anuire prior to the humans&#39; incursion. Even in the other lands (specifically Vosgaard) the elves still live in forests.

The elves left the mountains to the dwarves, which was why their war stopped. The dwarves had no interest in stripping the forests, the thing of most concern to the elves.

My point about elven horses was how do they use them? There is just not enough room to maneuver a horse through dense forests, which are after all is the elves favored terrain - regardless of what people come up with for how they lived previously. So the fact that there are elven cavalry, as units, is the specific thing that has always bothered me. An occasional horse is no big deal, but in the &#39;old forests&#39; there is insufficient room to have plains of sufficient space to support them. The descriptions of the elven lands in the PS or the Ruins of Empire - pretty much read very similarly, terrain wise.

[graham anderson]

Forests are usually fairly easy to move about in they are generally not too restrictive.
Indeed some of the earliest horse breads lived in forests and jungles I do not know if any horse breads currently live in the forests exclusively but there is no reason they can&#39;t. The fact that horses can exist in a forest is very different from there usefulness in battle in a forest of which I am dubious. Elves are creatures that resist change due to their nature and they may maintain units that have little use even this long after daesmar. The horse’s noble nature may also appeal to elves.

[Osprey]

If you&#39;ve ever visited a temperate old growth forest, which should be fairly similar to the elven domains, you&#39;d realize that there is quite a bit of space under those gigantic trees and their huge canopies - dense undergrowth is more typical of young forests with a less complete overhead canopy from the trees.

Of course, old growth forests also tend to have really spongy forest floors built from thousands of years of decaying plant matter, with little ups and downs from branches and trunks in various states of decay. Great to sleep on, bad for a galloping horse. So space isn&#39;t the issue so much as footing in our real-world equivalent of an elven forest (or the closest thing we have).

[Green Knight]

Or maybe elven steeds are as fey as their sidhe kin? As beings of faerie

dust and starlight, who are we to speak of them as mere horses!

Immortal, graceful and intelligent, so utterly unlike the ponderous

bests of the humans...



In a world where immortal fey guard the forests, it doesn’t require much

imagination to come up with the idea that maybe elven steeds, which

superficially similar to horse, are as different from them as elves are

from humans.



Just so we don`t go completely overboard with scientific facts about

horses and their habitats ;-)



Cheers

Bjørn



-----Original Message-----

From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion

[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Osprey

Sent: 1. mars 2004 23:48

To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

Subject: Re: Animals with bloodlines [2#2312]



This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

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Osprey wrote:

If you`ve ever visited a temperate old growth forest, which should be

fairly similar to the elven domains, you`d realize that there is quite a

bit of space under those gigantic trees and their huge canopies - dense

undergrowth is more typical of young forests with a less complete

overhead canopy from the trees.



Of course, old growth forests also tend to have really spongy forest

floors built from thousands of years of decaying plant matter, with

little ups and downs from branches and trunks in various states of

decay. Great to sleep on, bad for a galloping horse. :) So space

isn`t the issue so much as footing in our real-world equivalent of an

elven forest (or the closest thing we have).



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[RaspK_FOG]

Actually, Osprey got nearer to the nail with his hammer than any other; any great, old, temperate forest is characterised by large-trunked trees that form a dense canopy overhead and a spacious undergrowth - I am not sure of the validity of my choice of words; to make sure you get what I mean, trees may be as far between from 2 meters minimum, approximately 6&#39; 6", to 10 meters in the largest of forests, approximately 32&#39; 9"&#33;

A horse can generally pass easilly through the median space of most such forests, which is almost 4 meters, approximately 13&#39;. However, leaves, roots, and other loose material generally makes movement difficult, and decreases any creature&#39;s speed dramatically, since it takes a lot of effort to get a decent footing; and horses need a good footing, or risk injuring their knees, which can be critical to a horse.

In any case, one could say that the elves have "domesticated" a more wild kind of horse with a slighter build which would suit a forest better (Balance, Jump, and Tumble bonuses, with free use of Tumble as an evasive-like maneouver instead of tumbling in the actual sense, no penalties for moving through forests, etc.), but which would not accept a non-elven-blooded rider (half-elves should be able to ride such a horse, since they have the ability Elven Blood).

[Mark_Aurel]

This might be a good time to mention that there is an Elven Horse entry in the BRCS playtest - p. 164.

Anyway, I&#39;d also like to back up Osprey here - he definitely paints a correct picture of ancient forests as compared to younger ones. I think Elven forests for the most part would fall in that category - not having much in the way of undergrowth, but rather tall, ancient trees.

[kgauck]

A while back I posted on horses with feats, and an elven mount with Woodland

Stride would be a natural.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Osprey
Of course, old growth forests also tend to have really spongy forest floors built from thousands of years of decaying plant matter, with little ups and downs from branches and trunks in various states of decay. Great to sleep on, bad for a galloping horse. So space isn&#39;t the issue so much as footing in our real-world equivalent of an elven forest (or the closest thing we have).

Never underestimate adaption&#33; An elven breeding would be thousands of years old. Horses could be anything meanwhile

No seriously, some ponies who live in mountains can climb nearly as good as goats. So some extra long eyelashes, natural short mane and long hair at the horse’s pasterns (to protect them from branches) and tadaaa, you have your woodland horse...

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Irdeggman
Yup, the elves lived in the forest which extended to cover almost all of Anuire prior to the humans&#39; incursion. Even in the other lands (specifically Vosgaard) the elves still live in forests.

The elves left the mountains to the dwarves, which was why their war stopped. The dwarves had no interest in stripping the forests, the thing of most concern to the elves.

My point about elven horses was how do they use them? There is just not enough room to maneuver a horse through dense forests, which are after all is the elves favored terrain - regardless of what people come up with for how they lived previously. So the fact that there are elven cavalry, as units, is the specific thing that has always bothered me. An occasional horse is no big deal, but in the &#39;old forests&#39; there is insufficient room to have plains of sufficient space to support them. The descriptions of the elven lands in the PS or the Ruins of Empire - pretty much read very similarly, terrain wise.

Why can’t the elven horses be as small as large ponies? Look at the real world: There are over 200 horse races around, as large as a Shire (6 ft. tall to the shoulder) or as small as a Falballa or Shetty (about 2 ft. tall to the shoulder). Generally there are several possibilities why a horse can reduce its size, breeding only the smallest of their race is one “unnatural” possibility. Apart from that a creature reduces it’s size “naturally” if living in mountains, in a forrest or on an island. If I remember right, today are indeed pony races who live in woods (there are even ponies who live in swamps [Dartmoor Ponies for example])&#33; So why not. Naturally an elven horse shouldn’t be taller than 4 ft. and a bit to the shoulder if we suggest that its natural environment is a forrest. A shire horse would be more a typical anuirean “heavy warhorse”.